Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
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I entered a RQE this past Saturday and had an intresting situation happen. I was the judge. It was a 4 dog cast. First cut the dogs god fairly deep and a dog gave a high pitch bark. Two handlers struck the same dog. As soon as the one struck the other guy says that's my dog.

Now as a judge I want to be fair but I can't allow two people to be struck on one dogs bark. How do you make a determination right there having never heard either dog bark before?

Next question. All dogs were struck in and 2 were declared treed. They were very close to a road and we were walking to the tree in an open field. The other two dogs that were struck came into the cast on the way to the treed dogs. Both took strike minus and I said hey guys we need to call timeout to keep these dogs from getting on the road the one guy with his dog walking at our feet said no another handler said yes that's the right thing to do and the other was in a hurry to get to the tree so I did not hear what he had to say. A decision had to be made and be made fast before the two dogs took off.

I grabbed my dog the other handler refused and let his female go on. Once we got to the tree they wanted me scratched for handling my dog. Was I wrong in this situation for making a call that the dogs safety could be in danger? My point was we had nothing to gain as we were already minused on strike and the road not farr off it seemed like the only logical thing to do.

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Trevor, the way I see it I don't think you was in the wrong for handling your dog because of the road.

You should've scratched the guy that was in a hurry to get to the tree. He wasnt maintaining pace with the cast

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Second part first, if i am the judge no one gets ahead of me on the way into a tree. I would have stopped them in their tracks for a vote on the timeout BUT you didnt get the vote done so i believe you are done for the night.

As far as the 2 guys striking their dogs, i have had this happen and i accepted both strikes and informed both handlers that as soon as we get close and i can determin which dogs voice that was the other guy gets a minus on his strike points.

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 07-29-2014 at 07:31 PM

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Here is where it gets good. We decided the right thing to do was to go back to the club house since the one guy wanted me scratched. One of the other guys said he wasn't going back and he's the one I never got a clear vote from as he was trying to get to the tree when the 2 dogs were at our feet.

So the MOH wanted to know how the vote went and 2 of the 3 of us back at the club had agreed timeout should have been called. The MOH upheald the scratch. I'm not upset or mad I just feel it was not handled properly.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Here is where it gets good. We decided the right thing to do was to go back to the club house since the one guy wanted me scratched. One of the other guys said he wasn't going back and he's the one I never got a clear vote from as he was trying to get to the tree when the 2 dogs were at our feet.

So the MOH wanted to know how the vote went and 2 of the 3 of us back at the club had agreed timeout should have been called. The MOH upheald the scratch. I'm not upset or mad I just feel it was not handled properly.

---

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The bottom line is it takes a majority to call time. A majority of 4 is 3 votes. Either you have 3 votes or you don't. There really is no exception to that.

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If you don't have the votes to call timeout then you have to make a personal decision that's best for your dog. If my dogs in danger timeout or not Im handling her. You did that right as far as handling your dog in fear of her safety. The strike question should be handled like one guy mentioned as soon as you can tell which dog it was minus the other. Ive had to take 2nd strike on the same bark before because it was my dog. No where in the rules says you cant strike your own dog even if somebody has struke off the same bark. My dog my points. lol When I did that it threw the judge for a loop.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by wakenda creek b
If you don't have the votes to call timeout then you have to make a personal decision that's best for your dog. If my dogs in danger timeout or not Im handling her. You did that right as far as handling your dog in fear of her safety. The strike question should be handled like one guy mentioned as soon as you can tell which dog it was minus the other. Ive had to take 2nd strike on the same bark before because it was my dog. No where in the rules says you cant strike your own dog even if somebody has struke off the same bark. My dog my points. lol When I did that it threw the judge for a loop.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by jimbob_walker
what about this, 2 dogs left in the cast. Hunting judge and handler. Points are close so the handler is calling what he wants on whatever bark. Of course your not going to get a majority vote so do you just take a loss with a smile?

---

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That is a good reason why ALL casts that are 2 dogs should have a non hunting judge.

Back to my cast. My thoughts were back at the club house we had 3 cast members. 2 of the 3 voted to call timeout. That was my point. I feel scratching someone should be a last resort in any situation other then dogs fighting.

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At the time it was questioned it was a 4 dog cast so that is all the MOH could go by. The best thing to have done would have been demanded a clear vote from the 4th handler. I know sometimes when everything is happening you can miss things.

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Not only should the cast member have been scratched for being ahead of you and the rest of the cast, but if you look on page 59 of the rulebook under 16(b) it says "Each handler must vote or their dog will be scratched"
He should have been stopped and told to vote. If he refused, he should have been scratched. It then would have been a 3 dog cast and the decision to call time out would have been made considering two cast members out of three voted to do so.

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Even if he didn't vote the scratch was questioned and taken back to the club house where only 3 cast members were present. So to me how can you ask for a mans vote that wasn't there to give it?

I have judged a bunch and I mean a bunch of casts and this was the first question ever brought back.

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You handled your dog without a concluded vote..but the way I see it is that the vote should have been concluded in your favor. The fourth member should have been scratched first for being ahead of the judge. Second because he didn't vote. If I were judging I would have warned him to get back with the cast and vote or he was getting scratched. I then would have scratched him the second he didn't turn around and come back. I would have brought up the vote one last time and handled my dog regardless of what the majority vote was. If you went back to the MOH and told him about the fourth cast member's actions, I don't see how the MOH could have upheld the scratch. Especially if two out of the three of you STILL agreed to call time out. I agree that the decision was not right..

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you said you were walking to dogs that are treed and then decided to call time out. you can't call time out with dogs treed and not scored handler has the right to score his tree.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Davebrott
you said you were walking to dogs that are treed and then decided to call time out. you can't call time out with dogs treed and not scored handler has the right to score his tree.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Krystal Lear
Not only should the cast member have been scratched for being ahead of you and the rest of the cast, but if you look on page 59 of the rulebook under 16(b) it says "Each handler must vote or their dog will be scratched"
He should have been stopped and told to vote. If he refused, he should have been scratched. It then would have been a 3 dog cast and the decision to call time out would have been made considering two cast members out of three voted to do so.

---

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So Jim,

With the scratch being questioned and the one handler leaving the cast before returning to the club wouldn't the majority now be 2?

I said he agreed to call timeout back at the club and the one that refused to catch his dog said he said he didn't want to.

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Doesnt matter what the majority was back at tha clubhouse, you needed a majority vote, followed by stopping the hunt clock, followed by announcing to the cast that time was out, BEFORE handling any dogs.

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If he left the cast and didn't come back to the clubhouse, I would think that he had withdrawn and you would have a 3 dog cast to vote.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If he left the cast and didn't come back to the clubhouse, I would think that he had withdrawn and you would have a 3 dog cast to vote.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I said hey guys we need to call timeout to keep these dogs from getting on the road the one guy with his dog walking at our feet said no another handler said yes that's the right thing to do and the other was in a hurry to get to the tree so I did not hear what he had to say. A decision had to be made and be made fast before the two dogs took off.
I grabbed my dog the other handler refused and let his female go on.

---

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 08-01-2014 at 05:58 PM

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The one handler wanted me scratched or handling my dog so after the first drop we returned to the club. I didn't get a clear vote from the one handler that did not wish to return to the club. He withdrew before going back to the club.

I was probably wrong for handling my dog and deserted the scratch but it was the right thing to do with the road near by and we had already taken minus for the dogs coming in.

My main concern was 2 of the 3 back at the club had agreed time out was the right decision and how is that not the new majority since the other left the cast? Sure he was present during the ruling in question but did not return to say so.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
The one handler wanted me scratched or handling my dog so after the first drop we returned to the club. I didn't get a clear vote from the one handler that did not wish to return to the club. He withdrew before going back to the club.

I was probably wrong for handling my dog and deserted the scratch but it was the right thing to do with the road near by and we had already taken minus for the dogs coming in.

My main concern was 2 of the 3 back at the club had agreed time out was the right decision and how is that not the new majority since the other left the cast? Sure he was present during the ruling in question but did not return to say so.

---

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Maybe so joey. I have judged many many casts and never brought back a single question untill then.

When understanding the situation it was the only logical thing to do. Breaking the rules or whatever you call it.

There was an open field that led to a road close to where the dogs were treed. 2 dogs treeing clearly and the other 2 show up at your feet taking strike minus. There was one smart thing to do at that point and one thing only. Calling time to keep the dogs from danger.

It's just sad a guy would throw a fit and try to eliminate his competition for trying to save his dog. Wonder what he would have thought if his female got smashed on the road shortly after he wouldn't leash her up.

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