Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Ky
Posts: 347

question to the red dog breeders..

When making a cross trying to reproduce the 'great' crosses that has been made.. does one take into consideration of which side was on top and bottom??

One example is the pepper / Kate cross... when breeding these 2 lines together, would you consider a Kate bred stud over a pepper bred female having as good of a chance to reproduce those 'Winners'??

I understand its all a gamble, but some have better odds than others..

Thank you cor your time,
Eric

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 406

To many people breeding papers trying to recreate a dog. Breed a sire and dam with the qualities you want. Would be helpful if the grandparents also had those qualities. Many people breed a stud that hunts big to a dam that won't hunt 10 min or tree and expect the pups to have big hunt and tree. Find a dam that has big hunt and trees hard then make the cross.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Crazy Luke
To many people breeding papers trying to recreate a dog. Breed a sire and dam with the qualities you want. Would be helpful if the grandparents also had those qualities. Many people breed a stud that hunts big to a dam that won't hunt 10 min or tree and expect the pups to have big hunt and tree. Find a dam that has big hunt and trees hard then make the cross.

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Larry D Walker

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Last edited by Larry D Walker on 12-18-2013 at 11:37 AM

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In my limited experience, coondog to coondog doesn't always work either. But when you breed papers to papers and coondog to coondog, then your odds go way up. There are a whole lot of things to consider when you are trying to get a litter of good pups. That is why it is so hard to do.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
In my limited experience, coondog to coondog doesn't always work either. But when you breed papers to papers and coondog to coondog, then your odds go way up. There are a whole lot of things to consider when you are trying to get a litter of good pups. That is why it is so hard to do.

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Larry D Walker

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Don't forget luck.

From what I have seen I guess the only rule I can think of that seems to holds true is breed to the highest quality females that you can find. and cull, cull cull.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

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Registered: Jan 2009
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I will totally agree with your theory, -- [match] -- female to male
for a cross . & hopefully you will get half the litter
to have there traits

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Ron Wolter
Redcoat

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hey men theres a hound ,goes by the name hillbilly jabo ,lol larry stringer has breed that hound to females that ,well just needed shot ,but geuss what? that jabo hound is on his way to a reproduction percentage that every reddog man living will have to say WOW ,now I to think the female has much to do with throwin some solid coondogs but its going to be undeniable what that male dog is reproducing with some downright sorry females,so its either that hillbilly jabo is one in a thousand with that certain something that makes him reproduce at such a high rate or the females have less to do with it than I thought,i personally believe that that jabo dog just simply has that certain something in his dna that will produce several nice hounds and several titled dogs out of every litter he has ...no matter the female...and over the next few years this will simply be fact ,and hes not got going to breed to every female he can because the jabo dog is dead so just a few a.is. left and then it may be the indesputabe legen of granite granreproducer pr
ti

stringers hillbilly jabo

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quote:

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Originally posted by masonman1974
hey men theres a hound ,goes by the name hillbilly jabo ,lol larry stringer has breed that hound to females that ,well just needed shot ,but geuss what? that jabo hound is on his way to a reproduction percentage that every reddog man living will have to say WOW ,now I to think the female has much to do with throwin some solid coondogs but its going to be undeniable what that male dog is reproducing with some downright sorry females,so its either that hillbilly jabo is one in a thousand with that certain something that makes him reproduce at such a high rate or the females have less to do with it than I thought,i personally believe that that jabo dog just simply has that certain something in his dna that will produce several nice hounds and several titled dogs out of every litter he has ...no matter the female...and over the next few years this will simply be fact ,and hes not got going to breed to every female he can because the jabo dog is dead so just a few a.is. left and then it may be the indesputabe legen of granite granreproducer pr
ti

stringers hillbilly jabo

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

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Eric here is an example of what I was talking about from my limited experience...
.........................Gr Nt T-Top Rabble #2 on Historical Repro List
.......Gr Nt Fickens Deepwoods Rocky #6 on Current Repro List
..........................Gr Nt Music #5 on Current Repro List
..Peep
...........................Gr Nt Haze #1 on Current Repro List
........Gr Nt Chick (First litter)
............................Gr Nt Sally (3 Gr Nt and 2 Nt Ch's)
or
...........................Gr Nt Rabble
............Gr Nt Moose
............................Gr Nt Sally
..The Big King
.......................................Gr Nt Rabble
.............................Gr Nt Haze
........................................Gr Nt Bombers Red Wire #10 on Hist List
.............Nt Ch Wendy
........................................Gr Nt Rabble
..............................Gr Nt Willow (firsy litter)
.........................................Gr Nt Sally

Of course, you can do the same with Kate and Pepper offspring. It doesn't matter (IMO) who is on the top and who is on the bottom. What matters is that you pick top coonhounds from the crosses and go back to the grandparents and determine what type of hound that they are producing and decide if that is what you want. But you have to either hunt with/against these hounds or know someone knowledgeable who has to determine just what type of hound that they are themselves and what type they are producing. It takes a lot of thought and effort. You can't just throw two dogs together. You also can't just sit in front of your computer screen and figure it out. You can't always depend on what you read on the internet.

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Registered: Nov 2013
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Posts: 347

I guess the question I ask was a stupid one in a way.. but Richard posted what I was wondering about.. guess I was over thinking it. I'm not like most, and when I see a good dog, I want what made that dog instead of that dog..

And thanks for all the replies on the other helpful information, input, and constructive criticism. My intention is not to just throw paper to paper without having coon dog to coon dog.. but don't think I won't take a chance when the need or opportunity comes along.. There is a lot of good bred dogs that would/will make coon dogs if given the proper chance.

But no worries, don't plan on selling my redneck, hillbilly bred red pups..

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 191

I am no pro breeder.. but I think it is important to be objective when you look at your dog.. look for weaknesses.. and try to breed to improve what needs improved without breeding out the traits you like.. I think one of the bennefits of this site is that people can learn a lot about what is out here and discuss traits..

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1598

any man can own a hound, not all men can train one!

Heck I know some that can screw up an already good one??

The post above about breeding females that should have been "culled", have to be a little careful with that----it's a little like a sports team, you can get by with a player that's weak on the field as long as you have the rest of the players strong, but down the road you trade a few of those "strong" players off and end up with a weak one here and there and you can end up doing the same with a hound.

Good "luck" as Sawblade said and Merry Christmas.

OT

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OLD TIMER

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quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
any man can own a hound, not all men can train one!

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I know of some hounds that have trained the man.

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Registered: May 2013
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quote:

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Originally posted by masonman1974
hey men theres a hound ,goes by the name hillbilly jabo ,lol larry stringer has breed that hound to females that ,well just needed shot ,but geuss what? that jabo hound is on his way to a reproduction percentage that every reddog man living will have to say WOW ,now I to think the female has much to do with throwin some solid coondogs but its going to be undeniable what that male dog is reproducing with some downright sorry females,so its either that hillbilly jabo is one in a thousand with that certain something that makes him reproduce at such a high rate or the females have less to do with it than I thought,i personally believe that that jabo dog just simply has that certain something in his dna that will produce several nice hounds and several titled dogs out of every litter he has ...no matter the female...and over the next few years this will simply be fact ,and hes not got going to breed to every female he can because the jabo dog is dead so just a few a.is. left and then it may be the indesputabe legen of granite granreproducer pr
ti

stringers hillbilly jabo

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Last edited by BARRY C MORRIS on 12-22-2013 at 08:46 PM

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no mr. Barry ,I don't know all that ,the females might not have been all that bad just no big names that I know of,i think hes got 53 pups,Nitech pr Hillbilly Jack,Nitech RealDeal Ramblin Red,Ch.Nitech.Hillbilly Jenny,another pup,littermate to RealDeal is nitech. no grands that I know of [YET].you can keep up with most all Jabo pups on the Hillbilly Jack and friends thread ...but no bullcrap promotion here cause Jabo is dead ,no reason.I have began to be somewhat of a friend with Larry but that hasn't been enough to get my hands on a pup out of Jabo ,to many hunters ahead of me on his list I geuss and just not enough sperm?..You can see one Jabo pup in the august ed. of coonhound bloodline 3rd place all red hunt [RealDeal dog] he was a 1 year old at that time..i think he said 6 titles so far [its on the thread] Brian Hurley
and after further thought I wouldn't call any dog by name and say the sorry hound needs to be shot but the fact remains the hound is reproducing out of pr females

Last edited by masonman1974 on 12-23-2013 at 01:02 AM

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larry ive hunted with that young female i think if its the one jerome owned?,....... i dont think u will disapointed

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quote:

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Originally posted by spookyhollowduk
larry ive hunted with that young female i think if its the one jerome owned?,....... i dont think u will disapointed

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

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quote:

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Originally posted by BARRY C MORRIS
COULD YOU LIST THE GRAND NITE CHAMPIONS AND THE NITE CHAMPIONS THAT HE HAS REPRODUCED ALONG WITH THE "DOWNRIGHT SORRY FEMALE THAT NEEDS TO BE SHOT" THAT THEY ARE OFF ???
AND ALSO THE NUMBER OF PUPS HE HAS ON THE GROUND.

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NITECH GRCH 'PR' Wiley's Hillbilly Jack HTX DNA-P 2014 Performance Sire
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quote:

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Originally posted by Larry D Walker
I Just bought a young female off jbo, not even got her here yet. I bought her on a mans word that I know and trust, dont know what her momma is yet I should be getting the papers in a day or two, but if she is what this man says she is and I have no reason to doubt him, she gonna make some noise. This is starting to get interesting, we will see how the cards fall.

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

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Seems like the only Overall World Champion was from PR dogs. Really though how often is it that any stud gets to breed all hunt titled females, never? Aweful hard to say that a hound is a reproducer just becuase he reproduced a hunt titled hound from a pr female. Sure wouldn't be like that a pr female couldn't produce desireable traits therefore the stud gets all the credit.
Now that being said a stud producing from multiple females is a plus. It's aweful hard to claim your stud as some reproducing miracle when one cross is all that really ever produced anything.
Now from what I've heard Jabo is producing some nice pups. Just a shame that all the frozen semen is stored the old way instead of the pellets. That means surgical a.I. is going to be the most sure way to get pups which means $$$$ in or to make it happen.
For example with the pellets I got 12 pups from one straw cost of insemenation, few hundred bucks. Old straws used 4 straws that were in good shape got 4 pups, was by vet advised they average one pup per straw before proceedure and that's what I got. Cost dropped about $1, 200 in it with my wife doing testing at the vet she worked saving me a good bit of cash.

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Home of where the Heaviest Fireball bred hounds there are come from.
And the closest ones alive to GrNtCh Oklahoma Twister (the #1 reproducing son of Fireball) and GrNtCh Yellow River Rocky (the #2 reproducing son of Fireball) . Thanks to alot of help from my friends.

Handler of:
NtCh GrCh "PR" Dan Langston (Has 2 wins towards GrNtCh in the hunts) ( 10yr old owner asked for me to bring him back to his home) (wouldn't sell) (Ch D8 Dozer (bear hound from all coondog stock, out of my breeding) x NtCh Music/ Kitty) (33% Fireball thru heavy line breeding the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded hound alive, who is hunt titled )

Home of:
'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady (GrNtCh. Barnyard Horse Harry x GrCh Daisy (was the highest Fireball blooded female alive)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Toes ('PR' Atomic Fireball's Fast Talker (nephew to Bookem Danno) x 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Dixie (NtCh GrCh. 'PR' Dan Langston x 'PR'Harry Lady)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Two Toes (NtCh GrCh Dan Langston x Atomic Fireball's Toes
Didn't have the deep hunt style I like but is a solid coonhound. Been treeing her own since her second night in the woods at 8 months old.

Former home of:
(Qualified for the 2011 World Hunt) NtCh. 'PR'Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty RIP (NtCh.Twister's Musical Red Huey x NtCh. Sawblade Red Reckon) RIP

GrNtCh Fireball's Jackpot Jackie, highest placing Redbone female ever, in the UKC World Hunt . RIP

GrCh. 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Daisy RIP (Was the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded female in the world at the time) (Qualified for the 2010 World Show).

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Red River (Daisy x Brown's Oklahoma Twister) RIP (heatstroke)

Ch. D-8 Dozer (Was the Highest blooded GrNtCh Fireball blooded male in the world until I had the GrNtCh Twister pups from here) Was sent to be bear hunted because of his size and me being disabled. RIP

First and only sons of the Old GrNtCh #7 Historical Reproducer Brown's Okl. Twister (the #1 Producing Son of Fireball) in 15 years..


http://atomicfireballkennels.webs.com/
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=341228
Steve Bell

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haha larry i told jerome i have some paint for her chest.... but he wishes she had more then just that spot i think.

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quote:

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Originally posted by spookyhollowduk
haha larry i told jerome i have some paint for her chest.... but he wishes she had more then just that spot i think.

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

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hahaha good luck he says he likes winning so he stickin with walkers... he got a red ice remale id like to have but ive puttin all my time in my pepper pup and my male dog. figured 2 good ones r better then 3 average ones.

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Registered: Aug 2012
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He told me she was beating everything he had!!!!!!!!!

I think he is liking those Rebel pups also

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

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