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shawnstovall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: wyandotte,ok
Posts: 2114

new rules let's discuss likes and dislikes

what ones do you like and which ones you don't like.
i like rule number 2 and rule number 4
i wish they would change rule 6 to read 15 continue min. instead of consecutive min. and the dog must at get treed before this time is off.

UKC Coonhound Rules Proposals 2013
__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 2. POINT SYTEM:

1.) Change available tree position points to:
(b). 125 points for dog declared treed first, 75 points second, 50 points third, 25 points fourth. After one minute second tree position is not available. After two minutes, third tree position is not available. The only position available after two minutes is fourth tree position.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 4. POINTS WILL BE MINUS:

2.) Eliminate (d) and change (g) to:
(g). Dog treeing, but not declared treed, when judges arrives, will be awarded next available tree position. In the case of two or more dogs split tree points are awarded. Those strike and tree points will be minused, regardless of how the tree is scored. Dogs shut out on strike to receive minus tree points only.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
3.) Eliminate Rule 5b and add to Rule 4:
Any dog(s) coming into a tree, after the judge arrives, to receive its strike points minused, regardless of how tree is scored. If dog is shut out refer to Rule 3(d).

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 5. CIRCLED AND DELETED POINTS:

4.) Add to deleted points section:
If a majority is not reached to plus, minus or circle strike and tree points, when scoring trees and a hunting judge is used.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 6. DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED:

5.) Implement time period for dog not hunting to:
(d) Failing to make any attempt to hunt within any 15 consecutive scorecard minutes. Time is temporarily paused when time out is called or if dog is leashed at a tree but it then continues when dog is recast. A dog must be gone for five minutes or be declared struck before time is lifted.


6.) Add rule to cover dog aggression towards cast members as follows:
If dog shows aggression towards any cast member.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 8. TIME OUTS:

7.) Remove (c) and replace with:
When all dogs in cast are on leash and have been scored.


8.) Remove (i) and replace with:
If all dogs are declared treed or on leash time out shall be called after 10 minutes of hunt time has been used walking to split tree(s). Time is back in during shining time or if dog leaves tree.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 11. HANDLERS AND JUDGES:

9.) After rule stating: {Where dogs split up Judge will go} etc. add sentence:
If all dogs are declared treed and handled, cast may score trees in most convenient order.


10.) Change rule: {Permission will be given for other handlers to go to their dogs on split tree} to:
Judge may give handler permission to handle dog on a split tree unless cast is in the process of shining or scoring tree.


__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 16. TIES:

11.) Change tie-breaker rules to:
All ties to be broken as follows:
1) The dog that has the most plus first tree points.
2) If still a tie, the dog that has the least number of total minus points.
3) If still a tie, the dog that has the most plus strike points.
4) If still a tie, the dog that has the most circle tree points.
5) If still a tie, the dog that has the most circle strike points
6) If still a tie, dogs involved with hunt in one hour intervals until tie is broken, or flip a coin if all parties agree.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 17. GENERAL INFORMATION

12.) Replace rule that states: {spectators may not shine the tree} with:
Spectators may not shine the tree, unless, all handlers in cast agree. However, spectators are not included in the majority required to score trees and shall have no part in any scoring discrepancies.
__________________________________________________
_________________________________

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Randy Tallon
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Registered: Feb 2006
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Posts: 2106

People are upset about babbling dogs piling up points.....150 first tree and leave the rest as they are.

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jeff thomley
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Registered: Nov 2010
Location: searcy,ar
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I like the count down on a tree for sure it is used in the other *kc hunts and it works , it puts a gap between a dog that's does his job and one that runs around backing dogs . In akc if a dog is struck under the minute it has to get treed b4 the minute is up or minused . I like that rule as well

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WORMY#1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Travelers rest S.C
Posts: 887

Glad to see the progressive tree rule, be better if it was 30 sec. But a min is better then 4 min an 59 sec for a dog to be able to cover another!!

When are these post to go in effect? I heard UKC was talking bout making hunts 1 1/2 hr hunts instead of 2 hrs. Don't no how true it is.

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Old Post 08-07-2013 09:18 PM
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rweller
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: western central, IL
Posts: 1084

quote:
Originally posted by WORMY#1
Glad to see the progressive tree rule, be better if it was 30 sec. But a min is better then 4 min an 59 sec for a dog to be able to cover another!!

When are these post to go in effect? I heard UKC was talking bout making hunts 1 1/2 hr hunts instead of 2 hrs. Don't no how true it is.



Brian these proposals will be voted on by each association at AO. What ever proposals pass will be in effect Jan. 1 2014.

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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

Gentlemen, (and ladies)

I've added a prop that I missed on the original. Carry on.

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SEKY Coonhunter
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Corbin, KY
Posts: 771

Progressive tree is a good thing. I don't care for the 3rd one.

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Old Post 08-07-2013 10:49 PM
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blackdawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Whitesburg, Kentucky
Posts: 2519

I really like the tree countdown, and #2 and #3 about dogs coming into the tree late. There is never an excuse for a dog to come into a tree late, and they should be punished for it! I don't like the fact that a dog can come into a slick tree late, pile on it with the other dogs, and not get minused for it. That rule never made any sense to me.

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Old Post 08-08-2013 12:49 AM
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Brian Carter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Marion, NC
Posts: 875

I like the progressive tree rule.
I like the coming into a tree rule.
I like the dog has to hunt for 5 for the 15 to be lifted.

Not so sure about letting the cast vote to let spectators shine trees. If anything it should be a tree to tree basis with the handler having first tree making the decision.

Lot of good stuff on there but it sounds more and more like the other KC.

I like it.

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jeff thomley
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2010
Location: searcy,ar
Posts: 738

I like rule 3 -
In the original rule dogs are to be minused for quiting a track and coming in. When u r at a tree and a dog is out somewhere else opening then it all of a sudden comes into the tree it should be minused for quitting it,s track . In this case it is never more obvious that a dog has quit a track .

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Old Post 08-08-2013 01:21 AM
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STROKIN
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

I like the count down rule and the 15 minute non hunting rule

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Gene Raines
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 251

I like all the proposals! THink they all should pass. Moving towards more of what works rather another KC has some of the same rules or not.. The babbling rule if the countdown passes wont matter as much as it does in the other KC because the tree counts more in UKC anyways, in which it should.

I don't know about the tie breaker rule that states the most plus first tree points.. Don't know what that means exactly... What happens when a dog with second tree and dog with thrid tree come out tied at the end.. What then? Can see that being weird. Like the most plus tree points as number 1 instead of least minus, but dunno what the most plus FIRST tree points gonna do.

Other than that, pass em all! I'll def hunt them more. Esp with the minusing dogs coming into trees, countdown, and fifteen that don't get broke just cause you walked a dog into a tree with you. Think those would be some of the best set of rules yet. I'd def hunt more of them then.

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Old Post 08-08-2013 03:16 AM
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Billy George
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Hawkeye State
Posts: 1317

tree rule

First tree is 125 second is 75,The dog with first get a 50 point advantage , So If the tree rule is changed does UKC take away the the extra 25 for first tree and make it 100?

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K. Singletary
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Woods are shrinking nation wide, let's keep pushing these rules that favor independant dogs. No one ever accused coon hunters of being smart.

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SEKY Coonhunter
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Corbin, KY
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The problem I have with Prop 3 is kind of situational. I agree that nobody likes a dog coming in after the judge arrives BUT I can see a situation where 2 dogs are on a tree that's slick, and they've got the votes there to get it circled....

I don't see why a dog should be minused for rolling in after the fact when what he just done is no worse than dogs slick treed....

The only way a dog should be minused for coming in after the fact is when a coon is seen- otherwise you're letting a dog that didn't have a coon off the hook just for making a blank tree!

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Old Post 08-08-2013 01:41 PM
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rweller
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Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by SEKY Coonhunter
The problem I have with Prop 3 is kind of situational. I agree that nobody likes a dog coming in after the judge arrives BUT I can see a situation where 2 dogs are on a tree that's slick, and they've got the votes there to get it circled....

I don't see why a dog should be minused for rolling in after the fact when what he just done is no worse than dogs slick treed....

The only way a dog should be minused for coming in after the fact is when a coon is seen- otherwise you're letting a dog that didn't have a coon off the hook just for making a blank tree!



Nathan, that part of the rule is not changing. If the tree is circle with no coon its still as it was before. If they vote to circle it will be circled. How are you letting a dog off the hook that didn't have a coon. That has nothing to do with this proposal. The cast still votes one way or the other.

The only dog that gets punished will be the one that quits whatever he was doing and comes in to that tree. Just like quiting a track and coming in to you, right.

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Old Post 08-08-2013 02:38 PM
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SEKY Coonhunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Corbin, KY
Posts: 771

Ralph,

It makes a lot more sense after 2 cups of coffee this morning. If a dog is there prior to the judge arrivinf, but is NOT called treed, he's only minused if coon is seen, right? The ONLY way he's unconditionally minsued is if he comes in after the cast arrives.


You know, I wonder about this too b/c I saw it not long back. dogs were treed, and within 100 yds another dog was trailing. Handler A spent the last 3 minutes squalling like crazy at a tree. He requested all of his time, and used it accordingly at an obviously blank tree.

In the back of my mind I truly believe he was trying to squall hard enough to get that dog to quit and come in....

The dog came in, but its hard to get mad at coon dog for coming to a coon sound.


Guess you can't make a rule for everything can you?

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shane_atchison
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Registered: May 2007
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Rules

I like them all, but #2 is a must for the integrity of our breed & coondogs in general.

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RWS1963
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Registered: May 2010
Location: GREENSBURG LA
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spectators shining

I believe if all cast agree it should be allowed . I take several young kids who love to hunt , but when you tell them they can t shine it is a big let down to them . so why would they even want to continue to go or pursue this sport. with out the youth getting into this sport it will die out.

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SWANNY6
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Wi
Posts: 628

BILLY

First tree is 125 second is 75,The dog with first get a 50 point advantage , So If the tree rule is changed does UKC take away the the extra 25 for first tree and make it 100?

THATS WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IF THEY CHANGE IT.

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Slowpoke 2012
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Garmins

What happend to allowing them?

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Old Post 08-08-2013 05:23 PM
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rweller
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: western central, IL
Posts: 1084

Re: spectators shining

quote:
Originally posted by RWS1963
I believe if all cast agree it should be allowed . I take several young kids who love to hunt , but when you tell them they can t shine it is a big let down to them . so why would they even want to continue to go or pursue this sport. with out the youth getting into this sport it will die out.


Not sure how this is going to go.
RWS1963 you can take those kids during the week and they can still have fun. They also need to learn there are rules in place and they need to be followed. This doesn't mean you can't show them the coon after a cast member finds it. They just can't help shine the tree currently.

I can see both side of the fence on the spectator shining. I seen one response say it would not be fair for one cast that has 4 spectators on the cast all shining the tree. That would be 8 lights in the tree where another cast might only 3 shining.
On the other hand you let all the spectators shine and next thing you know there throwing those bright lights up there and the coon will never look.
The only time I have the whole cast shine on my tree (before 2 min.) is if the leaves are off. The coon is either there, its a den or slick.

quote:
Originally posted by Slowpoke 2012
What happend to allowing them?


Spectators have never been allowed to shine.

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Old Post 08-08-2013 05:51 PM
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buzzardcreek
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff thomley
I like rule 3 -
In the original rule dogs are to be minused for quiting a track and coming in. When u r at a tree and a dog is out somewhere else opening then it all of a sudden comes into the tree it should be minused for quitting it,s track . In this case it is never more obvious that a dog has quit a track .

I agree Jeff the countdown and tiebreaker change where most tree points wins over least minus are all improvements as well.Its good to know that UKC is willing to change the rules for better.

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Old Post 08-08-2013 05:52 PM
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mike mizell
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: nashville,tn
Posts: 629

what if your shining a tree for 3 dogs and dog 4 puts his track in the ground and comes in to check the other 3 dogs tree?

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Old Post 08-08-2013 08:08 PM
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K. Singletary
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
Posts: 1814

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Woods are shrinking nation wide, let's keep pushing these rules that favor independant dogs. No one ever accused coon hunters of being smart.


See the other kennel club that has many of these rules has a proposal on the table for 90 minute hunts siting lack of hunting ground and safety. I wish we could see the forest for the trees.

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Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

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Old Post 08-08-2013 08:21 PM
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