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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

Can you breed for color in English

I have two blue english dogs. Looking at both pedigrees not a lot of blue dogs in the backgrounds. Would like to breed them but from experiences what are the chances of getting some blue english dogs?
Looking for input and advice.

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Old Post 01-23-2013 10:52 PM
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Lakeland Kennel
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Why breed for color. You will be much better to breed for ability and traits than breeding for color.

If both parents are blue, most likely some of the pups will be blue but it isn't a sure thing.

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Old Post 01-23-2013 11:26 PM
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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

Not breeding just for color. Both have good blodlines. My male is a good hunting dog I just don't care for the hunts. He has on HTX win and got that his first time. The female is a grand champion but was never hunted till I got her. She is coming along good and has the hunt and drive in her. Just checking to see since not a lot of blue in them what the chance are to have blue.

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Old Post 01-24-2013 12:07 AM
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RANDY GIBSON
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Registered: Sep 2006
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you breed two blues, you will more than likly get a few blues.

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Old Post 01-24-2013 12:56 AM
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cartwright
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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
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Micheal I just bred these two blues and had a whole blue litter. Which suprised me. Breeding English you never know what color you'll get redtick is dominate. I have had several litters and this one is my first all blue litter. Keep in mind their color could still change. I have red and whites not get real ticked until three months old. Sometimes you even end up with what I call chocolates .



Looks of them at only 24 hrs old...

Here are the males...



Here are the females...

[/B][/QUOTE]

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Old Post 01-24-2013 01:30 AM
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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

I guess my title is off and for that I apoligize. I am not just out looking to breed dogs just to breed.
In both of there pedigrees there show few blue dogs in there. My male both parents are redticks and all grandparents.
I guess more wondering if color is more hit and miss or if a certain line has more chances of being blue or red.
I will try to post both pedigrees this evening.

Nice looking pups Cartwright.

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Old Post 01-24-2013 04:46 PM
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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

I can not get the pictures of pedigree good enough so I will try to type it out. I hope this works right, not the way I wanted it to but here it goes:

Female is:
sire of little bear GRCH Thompsons Hillbilly
Bigtime Bull
sire of bullberry GRCH Hills Little Bear
dam of little bear GRCH PR Hoss Little Sophie

Sire of juice berr-ee GRCH PR Wills MT Bullberry

sire of Blueberry GRCH ALEXANDERS COLOR ME BAD RIO
dam of Bullberry GRFCH GRWCH GRCH BELANDS ME BAD BLUEBERRY
dam of Blueberry CH PR ALEXANDERS COLOR ME BAD CIN
GRCH QUAIL HILLS JUICE BERR-EE

sire Jammin Jude GRNITECH PR FLOWERS FIRE CREEK RAPPER
sire of River Swamp Juice GRNITECH PR SOUTHEASTERNS JAMMIN JUDE
dam of Jammin Jude GRNITECH PR DANCING JUDY
DAM of Juice GRCH PR SOUTHEASTERNS RIVER SWAMP JUICE
sire of Swamp Maggie NITECH WOODSTOCK GRIZZLY
dam of Swampo Juice GRCH GRNITECH KIGHTS RIVER SWAMP MAGGIE
dam of swamp maggie PR BARBERS LITTLE DOT

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Angle Plantation Kennels
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PR CH Big Blue Buster HTX
PR CH Angle Plantation's Red Jasper

Let's get Ticked

Last edited by pttm08 on 01-25-2013 at 12:38 AM

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Old Post 01-25-2013 12:21 AM
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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

Male


SIRE TO ROLLEN ROCK GRNITECH GRCH PR POSTELLS TOTALLY ALSOME
DAM TO ROLLING ROCK GRNITECH PR RICHARDSONS COON CRAZY DAISY
SIRE TO BIG MONEY CH BRNITECH PR WOLFE CREEK ROLLEN ROCK
DAM TO BIG MONEY NITECH PR PRICE'S BLUE CAROLINA HTX
SIRE TO BUSTER GRCH GRNITECH PR NEUSE RIVER CAROLINA BIG MONEY
SIRE TO BLUE CAROLINA HTX GRNITECH NEUSE RIVER MCGRUFF
DAM TO BLUE CAROLINA HTX NITECH PR SMOTTH TALKING CHEYENNE


CH PR BIG BLUE BUSTER

DAM TO BUSTER CH PR ALLENS CANDY
SIRE TO ALLENS CANDY GRNITECH PR ASHLEYS RED CLOUD
SIRE TO RED CLOUD GRNITECH PR BALLS VIRGINIA SWAMPROOSTER
DAM TO RED CLOUD GRNITECH LONGS HARDTIME KIM
DAM TO ALLENS CANDY GRNITECH GRCH PR GREEN VALLEY SWAMP GINGER
SIRE TO GINGER GRNITECH GRCH PR CRIDLINNS RED SWAMP RATT
DAM TO GINGER GRNITECH GRCH PR ROBISONS LITTLE RED ROSIE

I hope the way I layed this out is not too confusing. Some [retty good bloodline from what I have found out.
Let me know your thoughts.

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Old Post 01-25-2013 01:09 AM
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boxmanwillie
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: ohio
Posts: 394

BREED FOR COLOR

CALL RORY COWLESS BLUE IS HIS COLOR CODE IN HIS KENNEL LOL HE KNOWS ENGLISH DOGS LOL

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Old Post 01-26-2013 04:22 PM
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cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3634

Everyone is subject to their opinions. But if you follow certain bloodlines you will notice certain color paterns that tend to be more in its line. My best example I can give is to look at the off color of the Harmon's Ink line of hounds and look at the Rocky line with red white being a dominate color also take a look at he woodstock lines when you see a woodstock hound you know it is . So what helps dominate these bloodlines ??? In my opinion is why the guys breed within their lines..

On the other hand me as a breeder used to want redtick to dominate at one time I even thought about red and whites. Now I find myself wanting blues.. So many guysand myself included say well if I wanted to hunt a bluetick I would go buy a bluetick. Is it wrong to have a color preference? If it was when you went o bau a new truck you would only be able to buy one color. This seems to always get people thinking wrong of your question. I understand it as you would like to dominate the blue color. Are you gonna loose ablitiy by wanting that. In my opinion your probably gonna increase your abiliy on the nose side of it. English breeders can say what they want but in opinion the futher you get away from the blues the hotter noses your line becomes. But the diehard redtick guys don't want to say that. And I may be wrong. But if you study pedigrees and know the good and bad in the bloodlines it can be corrected if crossed the proper way..

Now back to your question I personaly believe that it can happen. Why, well it all starts back when they seperated the breed. They bred blue to blue to get blueticks and tri color to tri color to get Walkers etc. Now to be successful at color domination you would have to cull the off colored ones. Thats why walker men frown on ticked up walkers and too many ticks aren't aceptable into the breed. Just as a white american bluetick isn't aceptable. Now the trick question is how many times will it take to dominate the color? And are you willing to cull all that aren't blue. I know of big breeders that usd to do this. They wanted redtick color to dominate the breed so they culled the blues to help do so. If the English breed would only except redtick color where would the breed be today?? No tri-pcoors no blueticks no red and whites..JMO's

Here was a cross between a white blue english male and a redtick female

Roofus is the sire to this pair Blu and Sue



Below is 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME DUECE He is out of a red and white male and a retick female. He is the closest color to what I call chocolate that I have ever had. This picture actually don't show as much brown as he really was.

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"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

https://m.facebook.com/plainenglish.kennel

HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

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R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

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R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

Interesting thoughts Cartwright. Just looking through bothe blood lines there were a couple Tri-color but mostly redticks on all side. So I hav ebeen wondering if with two blue dogs the blue gene would be prevelant or just random colors coming out.lol

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PR CH Angle Plantation's Red Jasper

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Old Post 01-29-2013 04:42 PM
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B Beland
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Bedford Pa
Posts: 182

Smile

Hey Michael,
The sire of your blue female (Bullberry) was the only Red pup in a litter of 8.
His mother (Blueberry)came from a litter of 3 blue females and 3 Red males if I remember right.
When we bred Bull (RED) to Juice (RED) we got 3 blue, 3 red and 1 black & white.
So their is alot more Blue in Bulls pedigree than you see on the papers.

Blueberry won Overall GRCH female at Winter Classic this weekend and we are pretty proud of the old girl (10 yrs old). We also still hunt her as much as any of our dogs.

Good luck with Juice,
Bruce

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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

Bruce,
I did see she won and you should be very proud of her. I am glad to know there are more blues in there. I always wanted the red one's but since I got both of my blues I would like to try to get blue one or even a tri-color.

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Angle Plantation Kennels
540-598-0173
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PR CH Angle Plantation's Red Jasper

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Old Post 01-29-2013 10:23 PM
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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

ttt

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Michael Armes
Angle Plantation Kennels
540-598-0173
Home of

PR CH Big Blue Buster HTX
PR CH Angle Plantation's Red Jasper

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Old Post 02-11-2013 07:02 PM
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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

Well hopefully in about 60 more days we will find out what colors they will throw. Since the first post I have got one more HTX pass on my male.

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Angle Plantation Kennels
540-598-0173
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PR CH Angle Plantation's Red Jasper

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Old Post 06-17-2013 06:37 PM
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blackflagginit
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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: burnt district MO/KS border
Posts: 787

nobody in the history of coonhunting has bred for color more than "Mr English" Kelly Stagner.

in fact I learned to speak "English" from Kelly.........ehhhhhh about 30yrs ago

Kelly is the reason Redticks are what people think of when they think English, though he failed to get an all Redtick breed.

I could break down the %s and confuse most reading with lots of genetic mumbo jumbo......like genotypes and phenotypes...dominate and recessive, and dilution, and ect ect......

but the bottem line is that blue stays blue, red fades in each generation, and blue is what makes red dark......so you need blues to keep red red once in a while.......other wise you end up with more orangetick than redtick

I remember the days when pups where sometimes separated into breeds by the color they were born .....with walkers,blueticks, and English all being born in the same litters. in terms of genetics...it realy hasn't been that long ago. 60yrs since the breeds separated is a drop in the bucket when it comes to dna

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pttm08
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Franklin County,Va
Posts: 1149

Interesting information. I am hoping about the middle of August to find out. Two nice bred hounds and they shuold have some nice pups.

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Angle Plantation Kennels
540-598-0173
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PR CH Angle Plantation's Red Jasper

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