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This question was text to me by a youth . Mr. Swaggart , What can we do to help our breed come up to be competitive at more hunts with the likes of those walker hounds ? He adds that he knows the numbers are against us and that maybe we are just plain out gunned . Even after this I still had to try and continue to read his text he bombed me with another blow . He goesv could it be that our black and tans are not as closely watched and studied to breed a more consistant and little quicker dog ? As the walkers he has known of . Remember gentlemen he is a young kid of 16 yrs. And around here and in the books all he sees is walkers win and redticks in the real big events . So be nice and let the young man slide on any harsh comments . o and he did mention one other hurtful thing . Why do walker men breed to a select few studs where seemingly every black and tan man who has a male dog tries to stud him ? I aint got time nor the knowledge to respond to his heavy and somewhat hurtful remarks.

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Come on guys dont be this quiet he will think we are saying what he thinks is really the truth. Show him you do have some kinda testicular juice just dont get real bad . Im gonna check it out in mornin. Surely someone can help this kid out! Explain it to him

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If you want to win hunts ... logic says you should get a pup from winning stock ... since when is spending your life trying to make losers into winners are realistic or fun goal ?

Seems like beginners and part-timers try to win with dogs that even the pros can't use ... right up there with mail ordering a pup for good money and paying shipping when you have no clue if you even like the parents , lol .

This youth would do himself a favor by finding out where his passion lies .. is he attracted to the hounds and matching his hound and himself against the coon and elements .... or does he get more excited hunting with others and seeing who is the best handler and which dog can make the other dogs look bad ?

Seek out others with the same passion regardless of what color hound they hunt ...

Too many folks want to recruit for all the wrong reasons , and recruit people who are destined to move on to other breeds or other hobbies ...

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Registered: Aug 2008
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The best teacher is time. That sounds like something I would have said at16.

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Registered: Apr 2004
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The kid is exactly right. Sad but true...

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IMO, any breed of dog can be competitive if the work is put in. I've seen with my own eyes black dogs, redbones, blueticks, english, and even one plott dominate a cast with walkers in it. Look at the RQE results and the black dogs that have won RQE's already this year most likely hunting against GrNt walker dogs. A black dog just won the winter classic yet we see posts about how black dogs can't win a big hunt.

So my response would be to any young hunter; "You can hunt any breed of dog you like and if you learn what it takes to win, you can find that within your breed of choice if you are willing to put the work in. However, you must ask yourself, do you want to just be a face in the crowd if you do win, which is what you will be if you hunt a walker. Where as if you win with the other breeds everyone in that breed will know your name. You can win with a walker and still be a nobody or you can win with one of the other breeds and be a somebody. Either way, winning takes work, even for the walker guys."

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I hunt black dogs because they are not walkers. What does it say about a dog that can go 3 miles, pass coons up on the way and tree a red hot coon?? to me, that says nothing. I want a dog that can strike over others, drive a bad track, and end up with a coon in the end. In my opinion if we strive for what walkers are then we have lost our breed because most walkers that I have seen are hot nosed and slick tree.

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Some dog hunt better alone
walker is the most common breed
Take the world hunt 80% walker
And some luck play a roll
Hunt what u like

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Thank u all ! With his youth what he sees is that most hunts wind up with a majority walker wins and to many times its not even a black dog in final cast. His thoughts today are that walkers do run thru and over but how come the black dogs cant get struck and hopefully tree before the cast has to go three miles to the straight line walkers ? Honestly I feel the kid just wants a winner to soon.

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There are black dogs out there that can win the reason the walker dogs make up the better part of hunts is because the guys with stud dogs will breed any female they get to. You are bound to get a few good dogs out of a stud if he has 200 pups on the ground before its three years old. Most of the guys with black stud dogs only breed good females because we have to try to make our breed better we don't have the numbers but we have better dogs for the most part. I have been lucky to hunt with some of the good stud dogs of our breed that are reproduce early starting good acting pup. Like Rebel that has who knows how many wins in ukc and Pkc and uglystick that's throwing early starting pups that are winning, smokey 7 when you turn him lose he takes off at a dead run and hunts till he gets treed fast strike dog and a hard loud tree dog. And many more it takes a long time to get a good dog that you really like I'm still looking for one but there are good black dogs out there that a walker dog can't touch I have seem them first hand..

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Registered: Sep 2006
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Any breed can win if you have the right man handling and has time to live on the road and the right owner with deep pockets willing to push the dog and handler up and down the highway

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Grundy VA
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theres good and bad in all breeds.. i want my black pup to be a good dog.. but im not stupid.. in my neck of the woods there are way more walkers that are good dogs compared to all the other breeds

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quote:

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Originally posted by loganb67
theres good and bad in all breeds.. i want my black pup to be a good dog.. but im not stupid.. in my neck of the woods there are way more walkers that are good dogs compared to all the other breeds

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Part of it is geographical. Some areas of the country don't have many black or offbreed dogs. At one time you couldn't hardly find a Black and Tan in western Pa. and when you did it wasn't much to look at. As a young buck he will need to remain open minded and when he gets old enough try to travel to a club that is known to have more of the dogs he is looking for....or go to Black and Tan Days and get an eye and earful!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by K. Singletary
I bet there are way more walkers that are bad dogs to, you just don't get to see those.

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quote:

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Originally posted by loganb67
maybe so but my point stands more good walker dogs ... if you buy a pup in my area you have a better chance of having a hunting dog if you get a walker pup

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The kid had some valid points. As others have mentioned, we have dogs that are more than capable of winning in our breed. We need to breed that type more often. I see a lot of B&T's that are lacking, getting bred. That is what sets our breed back. If we would all make an honest evaluation of the dogs we have in our backyard, we would be a lot better off. If you don't have something capable of beating the walkers consistently, don't breed it. Simple as that! The walker guys breed to whatever they think will help them win. We need to do this as a breed instead of staying in our own little clicks. I definitely have my favorite bloodlines, but I will surely go outside of those if it will help me improve what I have. Pretty simple solution, folks.

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The bottom line is clicks. B&T people will always use the exscuse that we are out numbered. Who cares how many walker dogs are out there if you truely have a good black dog you will win more than you lose. It's just an easy out rather than breeding right and training hard. B&T people honestly think they have better coondogs than the walker people. Truth is I have hunted with some outstanding walker dogs in the past 2 yrs. Guess what they are not just slick treeing idiots anymore that blow through the country. If this kid sticks with B&T's maybe he could be one of the few that has a truley nice hound!

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quote:

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Originally posted by swaggart
Come on guys dont be this quiet he will think we are saying what he thinks is really the truth. Show him you do have some kinda testicular juice just dont get real bad . Im gonna check it out in mornin. Surely someone can help this kid out! Explain it to him

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by swaggart
Thank u all ! With his youth what he sees is that most hunts wind up with a majority walker wins and to many times its not even a black dog in final cast. His thoughts today are that walkers do run thru and over but how come the black dogs cant get struck and hopefully tree before the cast has to go three miles to the straight line walkers ? Honestly I feel the kid just wants a winner to soon.

---

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This is an age old debate with people Just Like singletary said look what we have done since the first of the year we had multiple cast winners at grand america winter classic rge winners not sure but thats winning, alot of luck has to go along with that good hound if you make a mistake and it cost you the hunt is it you or your hounds fault, remember i said if you, not your dog. I also dont beleave that people are just breeding to any hound advertised as Black and Tan stud dog If anything most Breeders and or people wanting to get a female bred are some of the pickyest @#bs in the world which is good. Just some of my thought not that it realy matters cause we will do this same topic again and again and again but it is fun to keep reading it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Randy Tallon
Part of it is geographical. Some areas of the country don't have many black or offbreed dogs. At one time you couldn't hardly find a Black and Tan in western Pa. and when you did it wasn't much to look at. As a young buck he will need to remain open minded and when he gets old enough try to travel to a club that is known to have more of the dogs he is looking for....or go to Black and Tan Days and get an eye and earful!!!

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Thanks, Brock!!! But that's what I'm talking about. If he was in the right areas he could see a good Black dog go. There are more good Black dogs around than when I started looking after having my fill of hard headed Walkers a few years back. I hope he keeps his mind open and keeps looking and he WILL find one. With the mind he has for dogs and what is needed in the breed we could sure use a good young mind like his in the breed.

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I hate to say it but I think he's right. But I think we made a huge step in the mid 90's so we should look at what produced those big winning dogs and figure out the second step to make another big step. IMO!!

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