Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Westville Okla.
Posts: 38

Is their any semen out their from any Ed Ables stock avalible? i hunted Black dogs in the 90s would really like to have some old blood

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Cooper's Broken English Kennel's Proud Member of the Oklahoma Coon Hunter Alliance Cooper's Flaming Hot Lady (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/JAMMER)
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Ed Abel has semen on several dogs ... Medicine Man and Bad Medicine for sure ... probably others if you ask him.

The Medicine Man semen has been used lately and there are dogs from that around .

Look up Sawtooth on here ... he also has a gyp that is heavy bred from Ed Able's kennel.

Other than that , it's slim pickin' ...

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Hannibal
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Iam glad to hear that news the closest I have is a grand pup to indian outlaw would also love to have more of that old blood.

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MAPLE VALLEY BLACK&TANS

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Monticello Indiana
Posts: 1327

Before you read on I mean no disrespect towards Ed Abels breeding stock but what has some of his stock produced?A few of us was checking out this 4 gen set of papers I have looking at dogs "numbers". These papers were updated in Feb 2013 and they have Indian outlaw in them and his numbers are 582 pups with 1 GrandNite and 7 NiteCh that dont seem to good??? Then same papers it shows GrNiteCh Smithhurst Tonto at 278 pups 1 Grand and 3 NiteCh which.dont seem that good.Tommy Joe 175 pups 1 Grnitech 1 Nitech no good. But last but not least in these papers it shows Black Land Bear 222 pups 11 Grandnites 9 NiteCh??? I guess my point is when does it come to the point when people say ok.... He aint reproducing and I understand some went to pleasure hunters thats why I made this a question. Another question is when is it to late to realize that a stud dog has since passed on and people go wow he was overlooked.Whats the numbers on Medicine Man and Bad Medicine?

If the old blood was no good back then what makes it any better now?

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Jeremiah J. Melin
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Last edited by J.J Melin on 03-21-2013 at 02:14 PM

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JJ , I grew up in this neck of the woods and I agree ... we all gotta take the facts on the chin.

Not many of us will ever own a stud or gyp that twenty years later is considered one of the greats .. and those that do own one , have a big ole bone pile of dogs that weren't too great .... so the numbers thing is not as relevant in our day to day lives as it seems like on the computer or in the mags.

Medicine Man won at Autumn Oaks in 95' and was said to be a stemwinder on a good night .. that was reaason enough for folks to breed to him ... whether it worked out or not is just nature taking it's course .

Tonto won the Governor's Cup and the American Heritage hunt ... folks wanted to breed to him ... after that , it's their deal .. not Tonto's.

Ed Able bought alot of dogs , had guys training and hunting for him and bred alot of bitches .... that is a recipe for a low percentage .

We don't need any real reason to breed to a dog or want a pup from one ... so conversations about numbers are just for fun.

I had two Medicine Man semen pups .. I culled em' like they were free , lol ... I've hunted with Tonto semen pups ... can't say the whole litter was blow down successes ... but my Achilla is and that Tonto blood is tough , tough stuff .... you won't find a better base blood to breed and experiment with .

If it helps , back in those days around here ... whether or not those studs were greats or not ... they were the best available to the locals so they bred to em' ... I know of some local blood where folks bred to Ace and Albert .. and I didn't see that they were any better ....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Monticello Indiana
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Thanks for.the reply. I can only go off numbers cause I have never hunted with or talk to many about there pups.I think to many people think since so and so won this his/her pups will. In reality how many big named dog can you think of couldnt produce half the dog he or she was. Yet people keep breeding to them in hopes.We breed to get something better then the generation before yet so many dont come to the reality of it. If your breeding hard you have tp be able to Cull harder.

Sorry Cooper didn't mean to jack thread.

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Jeremiah J. Melin
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Registered: Feb 2006
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I bet that are more cull's today than yester year.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Bowers
I bet that are more cull's today than yester year.

---

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Jeremiah J. Melin
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Well lots of people jumped on the wagon to bred to Mr Ables hounds just like English hunter flocked to Rooster the good ones he produced came from good females the rest came from folks trying to make a buck lol im here in Oklahoma and have hunted with hounds off Mr. Ables stock sad thing is their were alot of pleasure hounds that deserved titles but the owners didnt care about things like that thay wanted a coondogs i had a great smithurst/minehart female that treed coons but wasnt a comp dog she won hunts yes but couldnt keep up with a walker that picked the track she started 500yrd further up and bet her to the tree she would alway check the tree before she set down solid so first tree was most usely out that would be the biggest reason she wouldnt be a number on a sires ped she had a nose to trail rough old tracks but have the coon

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Cooper's Broken English Kennel's Proud Member of the Oklahoma Coon Hunter Alliance Cooper's Flaming Hot Lady (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/JAMMER)
HLK's Hooch's Tramp (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/NITECH CH GARDNER'S BUCKSHOT SAL)

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Ed Able bought some good dogs , Big Wheel made an impact ... and at one time he advertised having owned dogs that racked up 13 World Champions ( B&T) ... it is kinda odd that so few of today's dogs go back to any of em' ...


I don't measure dogs by hunts won , but others do and as long as they are not spending my money on those pups then I guess it don't bother me .

My mark is hunting a dog several seasons in all kinds of weather and terrain ... I've never seen that could handle several hard years and still have desire to tree coon that didn't produce well.

I believe on good females , Tonto fits that bill ... I know he isn't anyone's favorite stud and I've talked to guys that handled him and know the good and bad ... so I aint gonna blow him up , but I aint backing down either .... the Tonto semen can help anyone wanting a big mouth and drive .. and it is dominant in em' .

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Monticello Indiana
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Very good point Cooper, My thinking is as a stud owner you should be picky to which females you breed. Maybe not just titled females because like you said there is many guys out there that could careless about the hunt but may have a bang up female and breed to a known stud because of the reports he sees.But as a stud owner you kinda have to take the word of the person breeding that there bitch is worthy or you'll be a busy person hunting with females.

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Also maybe I need to stand corrected on Black Land Bear being overlooked cause maybe the owners would actually turn guys down saying your female isnt worth it? I really dont know the case but seems his.numbers aint watered down like some.Some will breed every tom,dick,and harry females thatll comes along with the cash.

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Jeremiah J. Melin
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Registered: Feb 2011
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well if a man had a great stud and only bred say 6/12 females a year he might see what works and what wont and improve the line of hound for the better

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Cooper's Broken English Kennel's Proud Member of the Oklahoma Coon Hunter Alliance Cooper's Flaming Hot Lady (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/JAMMER)
HLK's Hooch's Tramp (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/NITECH CH GARDNER'S BUCKSHOT SAL)

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Westville Okla.
Posts: 38

well if a man had a great stud and only bred say 6/12 females a year he might see what works and what wont and improve the line of hound for the better

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Cooper's Broken English Kennel's Proud Member of the Oklahoma Coon Hunter Alliance Cooper's Flaming Hot Lady (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/JAMMER)
HLK's Hooch's Tramp (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/NITECH CH GARDNER'S BUCKSHOT SAL)

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