Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 166

Just wondering what day I should breed her on during her cycle. I noticed brownish lookin stuff last tue.but didnt see blood till friday. I am counting 11 days from friday which will be monday . Just wanted to get some opinions. vet said we could do a ovulation test but if we do the holidays will interefier because lab will be closed And probably wont be able to time test right.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2010

If you are only able to breed her once I would breed her on Monday. If you can breed more than once I would breed monday and wednesday. Breeding early you still have a chance at pups. Breeding too late, means no pups I myself would consider the 11th day after 1st sign of blood to be prime.(IMO). Good luck

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Rockbridge VA
Posts: 404

Twelve days from first sight of blood. Every dog is a lil diffrent. Mine bled for 8 days. If theres still blood no need in tryin. She will let you know if times not right. Doesnt hurt to breed every other day if possible.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location: indiana
Posts: 236

Bred one the eighth day. She had eleven.

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Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Georgetown, KY
Posts: 481

If she will let him hook up she is ready!! But days 11-13 are prime.
P.S. breed a coondawg- 2 a coondawg and they will make lil coondawgs. My name is shayne Martin And I approve this comment!

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Yazoo City, Mississippi
Posts: 427

14th day from first sign of heat cycle.

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Registered: Nov 2012
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Posts: 86

7 days coming in 7 days in 7 days going out if you breed 8,9,10 day chance of more females is possible 12,13,14th day chances of more males.

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Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by dennisfoster
7 days coming in 7 days in 7 days going out if you breed 8,9,10 day chance of more females is possible 12,13,14th day chances of more males.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location: indiana
Posts: 236

the one i bred on the eighth day had eight males and three females.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Hoyt Kansas
Posts: 426

eom

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

Conventional wisdom was always the tenth to te thirteenth day but i have seen bitches that were ready on day seven and as late as the ninetenth day. The later in their cycle the greater the chance for a large litter as eggs come down over a period of time. Usually skip a day between breedings if possible beause the sperm remains viable in the female for a couple days. The guy that thinks he can determin sex according to breeding time is either kidding or clueless. The males sperm determins the sex of the offspring.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Okay,I am going to chime in here and I know there will be tons of disagreements with me.I will be writing from my own experiences as well as learning from written texts on the subject.
If you are going for a one shot deal the 13th day is the ultimate day.
Why?
First let me answer the question about the earlier you breed the more likely of females later males.Biology lesson.The sperm that determine male sex are more mobile,faster. They will reach the eggs when they are ready to be fertilized before the female producing sperm.When bred later in the cycle the eggs are awaiting fertilization and the arriving the male sperm have a slight more advantage of reaching the eggs.Earlier they are both near the eggs as they are ready to be fertilized.
Simpler terms.The female carries the XX sex chromosome .The male cell the XY.When released assuming they are 50 Y/50X there is an equal chance at half the litter being males and half being females.If an X fertilizes a female pup results if a Y fertilizes a male results.
Y's (male)are faster more mobile and later breedings give them a slight advantage at reaching the awaiting eggs. Earlier gives both X and Y an equal chance.
Yes John you are correct that the male determines the pups sex but this is the why and how .

Now to complicate things if you are not keeping a watch full eye on your female chances are you will miss the first day she begins to come into heat.More often then not you may not even notice bleeding until the 3rd day.By the 5th day the bleeding has become quite noticable.By day 7 she will be swelling .By day 9,10.11 normally they will start acting like they are receptive to being bred.Day 11 is when the bleeding changes color and is not as heavy.
You never want to breed on the first standing day.Why?
Nature built in a safety catch to help ensure survival of the species.The first problem you need to overcome is that it takes three days for the eggs in a female to ripen once ovulated so they can be fertilized.
However male sperm can survive in the female for up to three days.
Most females will stand on the first day they begin to ovulate but that does not make them ready to be bred.
I believe the guys that think they bred on the 11th day have merely misjudged the actual date their female began to come into heat by a day or two .
There are females that have shorter and longer cycles that you must learn and adjust to.
I had one that would bleed for 28 days.I had two others that would stand on their 8th and 9th day. I still made sure and bred them on the 13th day and would get pups from both.
I have on several occasions driven or had delivered for a one time breeding and followed what I have written and not missed a litter.
I sent a female out once and the breeder bred her on the first day she stood.I practically begged the breeder to please wait a day and breed her again.He was confident ..........I wasn't.Guess what ? She had pups but it was 63 days from the second breeding not the first one.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 12-30-2012 at 02:19 PM

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Rockbridge VA
Posts: 404

Well i agree with some stuff. And i know science plays a lil role in it but if she dont wanna be bred she wont be. Anybody who is serious bout breedin should know exactly when they start bleeding. All of em are a lil diffrent.

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Registered: Sep 2003
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Posts: 2785

Every dog is gonna be a little different , you're a lot better off going by when they stop bleeding ... give it three or four days after the last sign of blood and they should start standing.

And like Pat said , the eggs come down a couple at a time over a period of several days ... a dozen eggs don't just drop all at once , so you need to give her a day or two after she is flagging and catch all the eggs .

Most guys do breed early , I'd say most of the time folks experience problems breeding it's because they are just over anxious .... if you seen her bleed and she has a normal heat , don't rush it ...

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location:
Posts: 86

I've seen it work more than once. I use to be a fox hunter and still would be if you could free cast in the wild without getting them run over here in nw arkansas. I kept a larger number of hounds. I would from hunt 7 to 10 hounds as my main pack. Would raise at least to litters a year. I,ve seen it work.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Bourbon, Mo
Posts: 209

I always heard that Wednesday was hump day.....lol. Good luck.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1745

Anybody else practice this breeding technique?
Early verses late for gender #'s.
I nevr heard of it,but am curious.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Rockbridge VA
Posts: 404

Mine was bred on day 10, 12 , 14 . She had 10 females and 5 males. Lost two females and one male. Raised 12 healthy pups. Duno bout that practice.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Take all the guess work out and do progesterone tests. If you are breeding natural or fresh you can buy the Date To Mate kit from Camelot Farms. You do need to know how to pull blood if you do it yourself. Bitches can ovulate from day 6 to 26. I would not recommend guessing if the breeding is important and you want a decent sized litter.
Kristin

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
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my last litter was via AI. the female did not want to stand at all, very mean. male was ready. there is a way to know which day to breed if you have a swab and a microscope. a friend that has had exceptional success with every AI breeding looks for something she calls cornification. basically when you look at the cells of the vaginal wall under a microscope, instead of being round, they will have corners on them, like a square. once there are 4 corners, its time. I took Bonnie to her on day 5 of bleeding and she tested her every other day. she was bred on days 8 & 10. had 9 pups, 2 female, 7 male.

so, if you have access to a scope you can determine it yourself!!!

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

Cynthia....that is sort of true. In my world vaginal swabs are good enough to say they are in anestrus, estrus or diestrus. The cells actually look sort of ghost like. One thing not mentioned is you need to do the vaginal smear, and stain with either diff quick or methylene blue. Then observe under a bright field microscope. As I said earlier, cells appear ghost like with definate nuclei. As she becomes cornfield the cells look like blue cornflakes and they kind of pile on top of each other creating big blue blobs. As a scientist, this is not recommended to determine breeding date. If you are breeding several times with fresh semen you have the area of a barn door to hit. With frozen semen, you are threading a needle. I guess that's a decent analogy.
I WILL be at Grand American if any of you have questions, I would be happy to sit down and talk with you. I will have a booth at SETW too and will be taking appts for free semen checks!

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

I had one female that would stand early.The male I wanted pups from was 7 and never bred.He was very inexperienced and unable to mate.So the next time she came in I took her and the male to a vet for AI.
As I have said she would stand early and I had not recognized this trait yet so I took her to the vet .The vet did the Vaginal smear and said she was ready to be bred.She was also flagging and standing firm for the male.
Now the male was showing interest but not overly so much.We AI'ed her on Thursday and waited a day and went back for a second AI on Saturday.
The vet assured me she was correct and had either studied or been schooled on AI.
On Monday the male dog suddenly showed a great deal of interest and tried unsuccessfully to mate for the next several days.
I called the vet on that Monday and she assured me all was well.

I never got any pups.The think the male knew more than the vet IMO.
The vet only did a smear .It sure put a bad taste for smears only to determine the correct breeding date.

I later bred on her next heat this female successfully now armed with the knowledge she would stand early and waited patiently for the 13th day..She had 9 pups for me.
I later sold her and informed the purchaser about her standing too early and to wait.He evidently was impatient as he tried a few times as soon as she would stand and got no pups.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: south carolina
Posts: 2635

quote:

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Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Anybody else practice this breeding technique?
Early verses late for gender #'s.
I nevr heard of it,but am curious.

---

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

More science for you.....hehehehe. The cells are x or y cells. To keep it simple....the x (female) cells weigh more than the y cells (male). I was involved with a sex sorting project and cells were successfully separated and frozen/thawed. You CAN spin down an ejaculate for 7 mins at 700rpm and let it sit an additional ten minutes and you can see a slight difference in color of the x and y cells. You can take a pipet and suction the cells from the bottom up and seperate girls from boys. It is cheap and not 100% accurate but you will definately have a litter that is heavy towards one sex or the other, if not completely same sex.
I don't know if anyone ever does this but would anyone like a breeding seminar at SETW? If someone can set it up I would be happy to give one. There are a lot of myths out there when it comes to breeding. Fresh vs frozen. Day to breed. Progesterone testing. Etc etc etc.
I can talk all day long about the science of breeding and sperm cells! Lol

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 2785

I'd love to hear some tips about progesterone testing , I am fixing to use some frozen semen on a gyp ... a local vet has done the surgical procedure enough to be at least and amatuer at it but it seems odd that around here I got alot of different price quotes on the progesterone tests and that they have to send the bloodwork to a lab .... I have in the past drove up to a greyhound vet that does nothing buy ai gyps all day long as his practice and I know alot of his success is in his timing .... I'd love to hear you take on it ...

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