Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

WAS IT BECAUSE OF LINE BREEDING OR WAS IT BECAUSE OF HAVEING TOP DOGS IN HIS THREE GENERATION PEDIGREE ? THAT IS HE HAD DIFFERENT BLOODLINES IN HIS THREE GENERATION PEDIGREE THAT WERE NOT LINE BRED, EXCEPT FOR HIS DADDY SACKETT.

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J.B.

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Location: Weyers Cave Va
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So heres the link to the old thread on the old board.



http://ukcdogs.com/boards/ch/posts/33023.html#33023

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
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I DIDIN'T ASK WHY THEY THEY WERE SO POPULAR, I WANTED TO KNOW IF ANYBODY HAD A CLUE TO WHAT MADE SACKETT J. R. THE REPRODUCER THAT HE WAS.

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J.B.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Bremen, Ga
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I am going to have to use someone else's quote for this one.

A reproducer is born, not made.

In other words, I think since his dad didn't make they they swithched to Jr and changed the world.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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All of that post you will see it said some people give Boone the credit for Sackett Jr reproducing.......but I aint going there again....LOL

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
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WHAT MY QUESTION WAS GETTING AT WAS THIS, THE MORE TOP, DIFFERENT DOGS YOU CAN PUT IN A THREE GENERATION PEDIGREE , THE BETTER YOUR CHANCES ARE OF GETTING A WORLD CLASS DOG. HOW MANY LINE BRED DOGS ARE THERE, OUT THERE , THAT HAVE PRODUCED WORLD CLASS DOGS? MOST OF THE WALKER DOGS THAT WON THE OLD ACHA WORLD HUNT WHERE OUT OF SINGLE REGISTERED DOGS. AND THAT'S WHAT HAS KEPT THE WALKER DOG AT THE TOP AS FAR AS NIGHT HUNTS GO.

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J.B.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

You see lots of half sibling , Old Harry dogs are behind todays producers . It's more than coincidence.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
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There are some things you can do to stack the deck, like linebreeding and back-massing good hounds and reproducers in a dog's pedigree.

But in the end, nobody knows a fool-proof recipe for breeding a dog that is a top reproducer. If they did, they would be thick on the ground.

The traits that have to combine in one dog to make a top coonhound are so many and so diverse that it is a roll of the dice every time an unproven cross is made to a certain extent. That is one reason wht breeding dogs is such a fascinating pursuit.

As I said, there are things you can do to increase your chances, like breeding coon dog to coon dog, and stacking the good dogs as deep in the pedigree as you can, but even then, some crosses that you think just have to be good don't work. And on the other hand, sometimes a great hound seems to pop up almost out of nowhere.

Breeding good hounds is still a little bit voodoo and a whole lot science.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
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It really dont matter what the dogs bloodline is. You could breed dogs to where they would have a 3 generation pedigree with nothing but world nite champions in it, and the pups that come out still not reproduce.

Yes, on one aspect, reproducing bloodlines help throw reproducing dogs, but you can have a 3 generations of 'PR' dogs and end up with the best reproducing dogs of all time.

Some dogs are born to reproduce. You could breed them to any other dog and they would throw coondogs.

That's just the way that i think about things.

Christy

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 5

The biggest reason he reproduced was he was c coondog,and most of the time he was bred to coondogs. You want to raise good hounds,breed good males to good females,and you will have some good pups. Are all your pups gonna be good,NO,but there has NEVER been a stud or bitch that produced all good pups.

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a freak of nature. enough explanation.

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home to coondogs and nite hunt winners

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
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any new ideas????????????????????/

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Dennis Robinson
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D-O-L-L-Y

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Location: Richmond, Kentucky
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If all will notice Lipper blood was used on a high percentage of the dogs Sacket Jr. was bred to......So I will say 85 % of the credit belongs to Lipper Blood no other...........

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Rosman, North Carolina
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I believe I read an interview with Frank Giddings one time and he said something to the effect that he always thought Jr crossed so well on just about any blood because he had a nice balanced mixture of the good old blood himself- a lil bit of everything type of thing to match up with just about everything out there.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Wise County VA
Posts: 39

Could you repost that link you posted earlier. I haven't read that one, kinda of interested to read it. The link was a dead link, I couldn't pull up anything. Thanks

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SWA

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quote:

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Originally posted by John Vaught
If all will notice Lipper blood was used on a high percentage of the dogs Sacket Jr. was bred to......So I will say 85 % of the credit belongs to Lipper Blood no other...........

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Let's look at some of these suggestions. Lipper, I would have to say no because I know more Sackett dogs without Lipper than I do Sackett/Lipper. Dolly and Boone, well both were very good reproducers, but nothing on the level as Jay. Old Sackett, I have seen some pretty nice dogs sired by old Sackett. Eventhough, I have heard many people say he didn't reproduce. So if none of these dogs reproduced on the same level, how did Sackett Jr. reproduce so well?

Let's look at genetics. Old Sackett represented many generations of line bred Yadkin River dogs (good reproducers). Now, Dolly and Boone and their families are also known as good reproducers. Jay was an outcross. He should represent increased hybrid vigor. The problem is offspring of outcrosses that increase hybrid vigor typically are poor producers themselves. So, based on this information how did Jay reproduce so well? Blackgoat and Mr. James Merchant are the ones I believe have the right answer. Jay was simply that one in a million reproducer who genetically defied reason. He was a freak of nature.

In the long run, it will never really unequivocally be known. He was an excellent coon dog that was an even better reproducer.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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IMO, he had above average reproducing ability, he was owned by someone who had unquestionable respect among breeders/coonhunters, and he covered many high quality females.

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Location: Weyers Cave Va
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quote:

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Originally posted by LNSM PINE KNNLS
Could you repost that link you posted earlier. I haven't read that one, kinda of interested to read it. The link was a dead link, I couldn't pull up anything. Thanks

---

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Swampmusic Kennel
Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
But Looking To The Future...

Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

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Location: Ohio
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I don't know Mr. Merchant other than what he looks like but his "Freak of Nature" statement had to be one of the more profound statements ever made coondog related!!!!!...... I have hunted with several of both Boone and Yadkin River bred dogs and never seen anything close to what Jr. produced... it may have been the Crowder influence as I never seen anything else carrying him.... all in all I think Jr. was really what average should be the rest are just poor to terrible.

Last edited by Harold Adams II on 05-13-2004 at 12:14 AM

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: michigan
Posts: 45

Sacket JR. I beleive that sacket reproduced really well ,and im not a walker man.The one thing u guys and gals have to remember is most of sackets pups were put in the hands of comp. hunters so that helped him a great deal.If the pups just went on to pleasure hunters no one would have ever know what he was capable of.My hat is off to Frank Giddings for a fine job well done with the walker breed.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Newwood WI
Posts: 1354

location

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Greenleaf, WI
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different Sackett Jr dogs to know that no one type of female crossed on him has anything to do with his reproducing prowess.

1. He had the right owner to allow a good reproducer to become as great as he was. I think Mr. Giddings isn't a bullshitter so much as others, and therefore not drawing so many common females.

2. Because he's such a hard hunter, he might have a little better perspective on the type of traits that should go into making a reproducer. IE, I wonder how many other "good" hounds he sold, culled, or otherwise did not allow to sire pups. Maybe he didn't settle for whatever Grand Nite male he had out back to make a name for himself?

3. He's a genetic freak of nature, or to say the least, a rarity that was allowed to produce the volume to show it to the public.

Like anything else great in this world, you probably can't pin it 100% on any one thing, but rather a combination of natural talent, a genetic crapshoot, and the right man to run with it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
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quote:

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Originally posted by wkfii
John, Lipper blood? Don't think so. One way to produce good dogs is to breed only good or great hounds to hounds of equal or greater ability. The other way is to line breed a blood line that is good or great. The third way is to line breed and periodically bring in blood that is of equal or greater ability. I have a little gyp who is Sackett, Jr. on top and Boone on bottom. Her House's blood comes from Deanwood Drifter- not Lipper. She is turning into a fine little hound. I think that House blood is favored with Boone blood because quite frankly it improves the voice. For my gyp it did not help. LOL I know of a Sackett/ Red Eagle Dick cross that did quite well.

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