Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3346

I feel like the rule that says every score has to have a plus, minus, or delete sign it or that dog is scratched needs to be changed. Years ago UKC did away with the boxes at the top of the scorecard because people were being scratched because the time wasn't being added up right, then they made where the cast winner could sign the scorecard in front of the master of hounds, so I don't see why it should be a scratching offense if the scorecard doesn't have plusses, minus, or delete on every score. If the score is figured up and put in the box on the right of the scorecard and the cast members sign the scorecard that should be good enough. If you are wondering, it happened to me tonight, I won my cast and thought I have finished the dog that I am hunting to nite champion, when the master of hounds enformed that he was going to have to scratch me because on the last turnout my strike points wasn't deleted. I am not blaming him but I looked over that score card 3 times and I thought we had everything filled out right. That just slipped by me. I am a master of hounds and have had to scratch people for the same thing and now I know how it feels when it happens to you. People are not perfect and sometimes we overlook things and I don't feel like our dogs should be penalized for our human error.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 1586

That's part of it... Its a dog and a handlers duty to win a cast. Its the handlers duty to make sure the card is complete. It's really a pretty simple thing to do.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3346

I agree, that it is my fault. My point is UKC changed rules before to where dogs didn't get scratched for human error and I feel that this one should be to.

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 764

Jeffrey that is a petty reason to kill a cast....I've always been a firm believer to reward the dog that does the work!! Guess thats why I mostly hunt the other KC....

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by jeffrey robinso
I agree, that it is my fault. My point is UKC changed rules before to where dogs didn't get scratched for human error and I feel that this one should be to.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3346

Jamie and Jim thanks for understanding. Like I said I am a master of hounds and know what the rules say and I thought I had everything right on the scorecard when I turned it in. I didn't judge the cast and the judge didn't delete my strike points on the last drop and I guess I couldn't see the forest for the trees because I missed seeing it until the master hounds showed it to me when he informed that I was scratched.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Utica, Ohio
Posts: 1023

And start having countdown on tree time! Nothin pisses me off more than a dog covering one 4:45 into the tree time snd still awarded 75 thats bs!

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 864

quote:

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Originally posted by Nat Thomas
That's part of it... Its a dog and a handlers duty to win a cast. Its the handlers duty to make sure the card is complete. It's really a pretty simple thing to do.

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Last edited by headless01 on 10-14-2012 at 06:49 PM

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

I believe they want all the columns filled out so they cant be changed on there way back to the club house.

Yes it is a bad way to get scratched.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3346

I understand why they have the rule but I feel like if they are going to change the other rules so dogs won't be scratched to technicalities then they should change this one too. I found earlier today that would have been 1st place and high scoring dog and I hate it that the dog I was hunting didn't get credit for the good work he did.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 1309

i think it would open the door for more "human errors".
enough shaddy crap going on why open another "gray" area.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 864

quote:

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Originally posted by prostockpat
i think it would open the door for more "human errors".
enough shaddy crap going on why open another "gray" area.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3346

You are proably right about it opening the door for more cheating. I guess I am just feeling sorry for myself. Its a hard pill to swallow to think you have finished a dog out and then find out you have been scratched for a scoring error.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

I remember one time..back when we had to keep accurate time in the boxes that a guy came in with the time wrong..I think he hunted the last 25 minutes on a turnout and it showed 35 minutes..anyway..he had enough points to win before he treed the last 2 coons in that turnout. It sure caused an uproar when I would not allow him to "correct" the time on the card and scratched him. To make matters worse, his brother was getting his license again (it had lapsed due to him being unable to do any hunts) and was apprenticing that night. Caused some hard feelings too..he filed a formal complaint over it. I believe in my heart that the score was honest and the dog treed the coons, but just could not allow it to be changed.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

It should be changed and i believe it will be addressed at the next rule change, recently a youth hunter was denied his win because of a similar error on the card. Its common for MOHs. to correct math errors on a card so why not simply pole the cast members about an error that involves a + - or O. We all know that on a rainy night when the coon are moving a score card can turn into a mess in short order. I cant think of another sport where scores are still recorded with a 2" pencil and a soggy piece of paper. We are a primitive bunch,technologicly speaking.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 618

Hell i have had em all screwed up wrong boxes and what not went in there knowing who did what i guess the rest of the cast was there too Moh walked me threw it and it counted nothin against us but we chase dogs thru the woods at night how smart can we be!? Lol human error is everyday this is a crappy way to lose i could see if there was a question or somethin and everybody wasn eye to eye

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3346

Kody, the other members of the cast were at the club when I got scratched. They felt as bad about it as I did. I am not trying to blame anyone, I know it is my fault, I just overlooked my strike points on the last turnout and didn't draw a line thru them. I love hunting UKC hunts and will continue to hunt them but I feel like this is a bad way for me, you, or anyone else to get scratched.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 618

Ya i am just sayin like others posted jeez i have seen them things soaked to the bone skribbles all over em and not thrown out and its not like it affected the outcome at all

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Seven Springs NC
Posts: 57

Jerimy,I had the same thing happen to me at the
grand American last year. I would have had double cast wins. That was hard to take, but thats the rules.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3346

Tommy, I remember when that happened to you. I know it the rules and we have to abide them but like you said it is a tough pill to swallow.

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