Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Does anyone else remember when that was all that mattered? Back when the success of a hunting season was stated as I got a "6-pointer" or an "8-pointer" or if it was an awesome year a 10 or 12! Now it's all about how many "inches" a buck is, or Boone and Crockett this or Pope and Young that. So what changed??? The record books have been around for decades, but in the last 5-6 years, enter the food plot seeds, and mineral supplements and scent control products, so we can get as big a buck as we saw Michael Waddel get! If we're not a "trophy hunter" looking to get into the record book, should we care about typical versus non-typical?

Is the coon hound world missing out??? I may be a bit ignorant to scoring methodologies and how rare certain things are, and certainly 150 class bucks are not in my driveway, but what about turkeys? Around me, they're like rats. I have a dozen or more in my back yard all the time, and many of them have what appear to be 8-10 inch beards. So why is that a big deal?

Is it a big deal, or has turkey shows, trying to keep up with the deer shows, made it a big deal? And if it's the latter, and we can just change public opinion on what matters, maybe we need to make a certain type of coon a trophy?!?

Can you see us make a big deal about treeing a rare "whooly" coon? Or perhaps we should start counting rings on the tail, and making a "6-ringer" something to talk about.

Again, I know very little about turkey hunting, and so I dont mean to offend anyone. But it just seems like we've made some less important things a big deal. Is just getting a turkey a big deal, or does the length of those feathers up front really mean anything? And if they do, why don't we seem to care about how many rings are on a tail, and start mounting those???

Just curious...

David Schmidt

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

I want shoot a jake. Which is a yr old gobbler. No fun in it for me. They run right in on ya. Beards are not a big thing if they are not 11+". Now spurs are different. A set over 1.5 is a biggun anywhere and old. I've never killed one with spurs that long. Maybe one day. Deer huntin ain't like it used to be for lots of folks. They have matured over the yrs. Use to. If I saw it. I killed it lol. Grew outta that. I put some doe in the freezer for meat but on my private land. If he's not over 130" I want raise my gun. I just like chasing the big deer now. Far as coons. I used to shoot all them to. Got older and figured out that was crazy as hades. So now I hardly shoot a coon. I guess a white coon or other strange color one would make me break out the ol. 22

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

Hells bells, its all about turning hunting into a competition, and dog owners were the ones who started it (bird dog trials,coon hunts, Beagle trials)! JMO for what little it's worth!!!!

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Mayer, MN
Posts: 920

There's no one who brags about having a tiny "whatever" and that applies to hunting, trucks, tattoos and about anything else. What dude would walk into a small town hangout and say, "I got the tiniest truck of any of ya'll and it gets stuck in puddles so there!".

To bad that that is how human nature is, especially for men who get all worked up when someone does them one better. Of course being competitive is a fun thing in lots of ways and how can you compete by not one-upping the record for some things like a monster pumpkin or big coon or a bass. As long as we have to brag and win that is how it works. Some folks just take it so serious all the time.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Dave,

I see a 2 1/2 year old soy bean and corn feed deer, and I am thinking hmmmm tender. Let those guys shot those 6-8 year old bucks, I can guarantee I will be enjoying my venison more than they are.

To answer your question perception has changed. It used to be about the hunt. It was about enjoying the camaraderie and hunting camp. Now days guys have themselves thinking that mature bucks are some kind of super animal and only super hunters can harvest such an animal. It basically comes down to an ego trip.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

They probably feel the same way about nite hunts !

Why coon hunt for a title? LOL

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

I guess I'm as guilty as the next guy! I've got a fairly nice buck hanging on the wall, that I held out for, and I've got buddies with turkey tails, spurs and beards hanging on theirs. I guess I just find it weird that as competitive as us coon hunters are, we haven't found a way to make a trophy out of one! We'd rather embrace little yellow slips! LOL

David Schmidt

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 10675

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Dave,

I see a 2 1/2 year old soy bean and corn feed deer, and I am thinking hmmmm tender. Let those guys shot those 6-8 year old bucks, I can guarantee I will be enjoying my venison more than they are.

To answer your question perception has changed. It used to be about the hunt. It was about enjoying the camaraderie and hunting camp. Now days guys have themselves thinking that mature bucks are some kind of super animal and only super hunters can harvest such an animal. It basically comes down to an ego trip.

---

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: mich
Posts: 116

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Dave,

Now days guys have themselves thinking that mature bucks are some kind of super animal and only super hunters can harvest such an animal. It basically comes down to an ego trip.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: natchez, ms
Posts: 565

would be a all black or all white coon......

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Jay Buller
I HUNT ONE DOG AND 3 KIDS
Jake "ACORN SHAKER"

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: SCOTT DEPOT , WVA
Posts: 1289

i hunt alot of different wild game . iam a coon hunter first and formost , then i enjoy deer hunting both bow / gun . i like to squirrel hunt , and turkey hunt in the spring . i enjoy bass fishing and trout fishing as well . a enjoyable hunt hunt to me isnt judged in the size of animal or how many points , etc . i hear alot of times i dont shoot small bucks , or i only fly fish in mountain streams for trout or whatever . when iam coon hunting i expect to tree coons reguardless , when iam fishing its pretty much a givin iam goona catch fish . deer hunting i gauge it , i kill deer based on how much meat i still have if any , if a family member wants a deer , and how hard ive had to hunt just to see a deer . i dont hunt over major food plotts , here in wv its hardwoods with acorns or green greass pastures fields , so its hit in miss seeing deer you might see 10 a set then go three days and see nothing . i dont shoot anything that isnt eaten , i dont particuarly like shooting does but take one or two a year for the freezer . i killed a nice 8 pointer this year ans was proud of it , but wasnt no more proud of it than treeing a coon and watching the dogs do it right . i wont shoot jake turkeys or hens . i enjoy killing a nice long beard , and ejoy eating them also ! people are different , a trophy is in the eye of the beholder , as long as your having fun at it ! when it gets more like a job then its time to quit !

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Maybe I should clarify a little ... I don't have a problem with those who enjoy deer hunting. In fact, I enjoy deer hunting.

I just think too much emphasis is placed on big bucks. To me deer hunting can be so much more, like the face of a youngster who shoots their first deer. Now that is deer hunting. Or waking up at 4:00 am to the smell of coffee, bacon, moth balls in a northern cabin.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

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Originally posted by deschmidt27
I guess I'm as guilty as the next guy! I've got a fairly nice buck hanging on the wall, that I held out for, and I've got buddies with turkey tails, spurs and beards hanging on theirs. I guess I just find it weird that as competitive as us coon hunters are, we haven't found a way to make a trophy out of one! We'd rather embrace little yellow slips! LOL

David Schmidt

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

So let me ask a different question... with all the attention and growth the deer hunting market has seen in recent years, are the hound sports missing out on promotion and growth due to a lack of television exposure?

David Schmidt

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

quote:

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Originally posted by deschmidt27
So let me ask a different question... with all the attention and growth the deer hunting market has seen in recent years, are the hound sports missing out on promotion and growth due to a lack of television exposure?

David Schmidt

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Last edited by Cowboyred on 02-08-2012 at 01:02 PM

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Lawrenceburg TN
Posts: 1793

BEAR AND CAT HUNTERS MEASURE THE SKULL, MAYBE COONHUNTERS COULD MEASURE THE 'TOOTHPICK'!!! LOL

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3427

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Dave,

I see a 2 1/2 year old soy bean and corn feed deer, and I am thinking hmmmm tender. Let those guys shot those 6-8 year old bucks, I can guarantee I will be enjoying my venison more than they are.

To answer your question perception has changed. It used to be about the hunt. It was about enjoying the camaraderie and hunting camp. Now days guys have themselves thinking that mature bucks are some kind of super animal and only super hunters can harvest such an animal. It basically comes down to an ego trip.

---

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Cowboyred - you and I may be saying the same thing but I'm not sure... in my opinion the "must haves" are defined by what folks see on television. The need for those gadgets are defined by what the market sees on television. And so, I'm not sure I want to be convinced that I need more gadgets, but perhaps there are gadgets that would keep me and my dogs safer, that nobody has heard of because the market is not approaching us. Or the flip side, nobody is pursuing the development, because they weren't aware of a need.

For example... I've been trying to sell sponsorship for Tailgate Adventures to manufacturers, and many of them are shocked that there are still coonhunters out there! Some even sponsor bird-dog shows, and I'm here to tell you that the houndsmen out number the bird dog owners by a huge margin. This means we're a large consumer market, and they're not even aware of us. So... what's out there that we're not aware of??? Prime example... the Garmin collar was originally targetted at bird dogs, but the market exploded, once we got a hold of it!

David Schmidt

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

I don't believe us hound hunters present ourselves very well.
We don't seem to want to look at things from the non-hounders point of view and present ourselves to them in a way they can understand.

For example -
When I watch bird-dog shows on TV , I can see what the dog is doing.
I enjoy watching the guys send their retrievers after the dummies using nothing but hand signals and a whistle.
Or the "Dock" dogs. Running and jumping after the dummy to see who can jump the farthest.
If one of those guys were to stop in and ask me to tag along , I'd go in a heartbeat !

With the hounding shows , it's always the same.....
A bunch of guys standing around with dogs barking off in the distance.
Sure , us hound guys know what's going on , but the non-hounders don't. It's boring for them and they change the channel after a few minutes.
Then , when someone invites them along , that's the first thing they think of , just standing around listening to dogs bark. A few are interested , but most aren't.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Last edited by jackbob42 on 02-08-2012 at 03:57 PM

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Ok... but in defense of those "hound shows" that is usually all the coonhunter does see. Very few of us chase the hounds through the woods so we can see them work, as the bird hunters can. In other words, what you see on the bird shows is what the hunter sees (one, the dogs are relatively close and two, it's light out) and what you see on a certain hound show (I can think of) is what those hunters see. And so yes, you have to be a houndsman to appreciate just listening to the dogs.

Now, with that said, I know that Season I of Tailgate Adventures had some actual hound action captured and it did appear in the show. But we wore Joe out in getting it, and much wasn't usable because everything was moving too fast and in the dark.

So have we presented an exciting look at our sport... perhaps not always. But if we did show all the action, via a team of camera men out in the woods, the first time someone joined us and spent the night at the tailgate, they may be dissappointed.

The bottom line is that our sport is different, in that the true hunter is really the hounds. But, maybe that's a technology we need... a live video feed from our dogs collar to our cell phone! LOL Or perhaps that's why som many are addicted to the Garmin... becasue they can watch what the real hunters are up to.

David Schmidt

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

That has got to be a tough sell Dave, marketing a show about a subculture that many don't know exists let alone at the level it does. Lots of people conjure up visions of some bib overalled, moonshine swilling, inbred hick when you mention coon hunters. Changing a mental picture anything like that and trying to get them to lend sponsorship to a show about them would be tough.

I was watching "Human Planet" recently. They were filming fox hunting in the Himilayas with eagles and had mounted a camera on the back of an eagle. Talk about a cool "birds eye" view!! I don't imagine it would work too well on a hound at night, but it would be possible to do on some daytime game (Bobcat, Bear, Mt. Lion). That would show non hound people what the hounds are doing at night even though they can't see it. Probably cost prohibitive though as I'm sure those cameras are not cheap.

If you are able to produce more shows I would like to see an episode where you explain that study they did a few years ago about the impact of hound hunting on deer movement. It would be great to include one or more of the biologists involved in that research project too.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: MO
Posts: 775

quote:

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Originally posted by chuck west
Those old buck are so tough you can't stick a fork in the gravy ,let alone the steak ,,,lol

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Cowboyred - we looked at collar cameras but unlike an eagle that sort of glides and floats, a dog is constantly moving... end result, a very nauseating point of view. However, Season III will likely include cameras on the human hunters to provide greater coverage of the hunt.

In Season II we performed a "depradation" type hunt on a golf course and cited the various studies on racoon hunting's affect on deer hunting as well as studies on crop damage done by coon versus deer. We provided the links on the show, as well as on our website, and it was well received.

David Schmidt

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

Yep, saw that episode. Still would like to have the info from the "horses mouth" so to speak. Hard to get folks to check a web site about something they don't agree with or don't want to know the truth about.

The cameras on those eagles were about the same size as many of the small hand held ones you see people with taping their kids play sports and such. They mounted it with a harness on the birds back. I don't know how much difference doing it that way on a dog would make versus on the neck. Probably still a lot of movement and vibration I suppose.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

Sometimes you just have to think outside the box.........
Have you ever thought of putting a few camera guys in tree stands around a waterhole/marsh and then turn the coondogs loose right after daylight? And then explain that we normally do this at night.
Or , how about a few guys in tree stands , or up on hills , watching a pack of beagles run a rabbit? The grandson just got his first view from a tree stand last week and loved it !
Or , how about a couple guys in tree stands in a hardwoods watching some squirrel dogs work?
Showing the animals go through and the dogs trailing through the same area in a split-screen shot maybe?

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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