Registered: Jan 2007
Location: LaFontaine IN
Posts: 184

This happened on a cast I was spectating this spring it really didn't have any bearing on the outcome of the cast. But I would like some input on how some others would have handled it..
4 dog cast all dogs strike in order... dogs A & B tree to the right.. about 2 min in C trees in with them D is opening in the distance.. wait the rest of the 5 head towards dogs get close and can tell C is split and a little closer to us we get about 30 yards from C's tree and he bolts and runs about 20 yards to A & B's tree so he is minused 125 we continue towards A&B and C fly's right around us and goes back to his tree.. we score A&B tree plussed... and now is what is a little unsure.. We have dog C blowing it down 20 yards away but not declared treed he didn't get his strike minused which he probably should have.. and dog D in the distance trailing. Should A & B be allowed to walk a distance away from their tree or do they have to cut loose immediatley on C. A & B would have prefered walking away from the area a little but were told to turn loose... as soon as they were unsnapped he treed C .. A went and covered C and B went back to the previous scored tree at least twice while waiting the 5. In 25 years of nite hunts I've never had that situation where you had to cut loose on a dog treed but not declared.. only feet away from a previously scored tree... and who knows we may have walked a minute or so and got the same results.... but just curious if they had that option to get away and send them more towards dog D... Just for the record the tree C was on was obviously slick... thats one of the reasons A & B didn't want to cut loose right on him.. Should the stationary rule have been applied on C while shining A&B tree.. Of course with no leaves on it took all of 30 sec. to find A&B coon so you were going to have to turn loose before the stationary time was up anyway... Like I said it really didn't effect the outcome ..all dogs got what they deserved right or wrong and we went on and scored on 4 more coons and had a great hunt.. Just curious if it should or could have been handled different!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

They gotta turn loose. Since C was not declared treed. They don't have the option not to. No walking rule in ukc. So soon as they get em off tree and c or d barks. Gotta cut back loose.

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
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With the turn loose rule, they would have to cut them after scoring their tree.

When C went back on his tree, I would have started the stationary rule on it. You can walk towards D a reasonable distance, usually 1 minute and turn them loose. If they go to C and not D, that's the way it is, nothing you can do about it.

When he treed C, he did the other handler a favor, so he didn't have to take minus on strike on the slick tree. Take care, Ron.

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Taylorsville, NC
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They had to turn loose as soon as their tree was scored because dog C was opening. The situation was done right. The handler of dog C could have treed his dog before, during, or after the other tree was scored. No way you can minus dog C on strike for leaving the tree it was declared treed on, his track was still open at that point.

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I believe it has always been UKC's policy to walk as far from a tree as is needed to prevent dogs from going back.Since Dog b went back they had not been allowed enough distance to walk away from the previosly scored tree.However,this should not be used to not turn loose because you are worried about the dogs going over an covering dog c.Example being,you had already scored a tree earlier and had only needed to walk 50 yds from that tree to recut.Now because there is a dog opening(or treeing but not declared) in the area,you can't say now I need to walk a 100 yds cause I don't want them to go to that dog.Have to stay consistant.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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I don't know about any UKC policy allowing dogs to walked as far as needed but I know what rule 11 says and it states that after scoring tree, dogs "MUST be turned loose with other dogs that are opening on trail". Seems clear to me that when the 8 is broke, you cast your dog or take it to the truck.

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Registered: Sep 2010
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If your my judge jim and i am handling dog b and we don't get to walk far enough away from the tree(on that given nite) he is going to get a pat on the side and a good boy every time he goes back till you put the 5 on dog c or we walk far enough awy from the tree.I don't disagree with you very often but on this one i respectfully do.I can remember todd talking about dogs returning to previously scored trees and it being a matter of how many times you wanted to walk back.I know what rule 11 says but you have to use some common sense in this situation.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: LaFontaine IN
Posts: 184

I was pretty sure everything was handled right.. but it just seemed odd because by the time they tied their dogs back from their tree they are pretty much standing right next to dog C BLOWING the top out of his tree. The plussed tree was on the edge of the woods up against a fence so no other place to tie but back next to dog C. And the minute it was scored they turned loose pretty much from where they were tied back and barking at their tree. And no more than 30 ft. from C.. just alot of temtation right in their face's... but it all shook out in the end and situations like that are part of this game!! Dog C minused out and the remaining 3 split treed the rest of the night scoring on 4 or 5 more coons with Dog B coming out on top. It is just amazing how many times when in the woods with these hounds you get to say " I ain't never seen that before" Thanks for your input!! Jeff

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by StrawberryMt
If your my judge jim and i am handling dog b and we don't get to walk far enough away from the tree(on that given nite) he is going to get a pat on the side and a good boy every time he goes back till you put the 5 on dog c or we walk far enough awy from the tree.I don't disagree with you very often but on this one i respectfully do.I can remember todd talking about dogs returning to previously scored trees and it being a matter of how many times you wanted to walk back.I know what rule 11 says but you have to use some common sense in this situation.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
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The common sence is to break em from going back LOL..

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Michael Ghorley

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I know it says that C wasn't treed before A and B were turned loose, but just to point out that if C WAS treed before A and B tree was scored then it would be A & B'S option whether to cut loose or not, they wouldn't have to if they didn't want to. rule 11 right below what JIM was talking about.

just sayin......

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Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
The common sence is to break em from going back LOL..

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I dont know about common sense, but I do know you can gain one heck of an advantage if your dog knows to go look for another coon while the others are pizzing their hunt time away.

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Registered: Sep 2010
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With your guys reasoning,in this scenerio,you should have just cut straight from the tree.I still say that even though the dog was opening you still should walk the two handled dogs as far from their tree as is usually done to recast.By the way,I can take two steps away and recut mine but that is not the point.Take dog c out of the equation.Now,How far do you need to walk a and b before recasting?What ever distance that is,is still the distance with other dogs opening.Just because you don't have to put the 8 on them and can must recut you still need to walk them away from that tree.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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quote:

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Originally posted by josh
I dont know about common sense, but I do know you can gain one heck of an advantage if your dog knows to go look for another coon while the others are pizzing their hunt time away.

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No fair Josh, that's slick handlin right there. You are cheatin folks with that move. I mean you shouldn't be able to benifit from hours of hunt time and training through the week on a weekend nite hunt. Just ain't right atall. You stop trainin your dogs to leave huntin another coon right now and while your at it make sure you feed your dogs big before a hunt so they have to take 5 minutes to clean out too. No fair for you to get that extra hunt time.

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Registered: Sep 2010
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Allan or Todd?

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Registered: May 2009
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quote:

---

Originally posted by StrawberryMt
With your guys reasoning,in this scenerio,you should have just cut straight from the tree.I still say that even though the dog was opening you still should walk the two handled dogs as far from their tree as is usually done to recast.By the way,I can take two steps away and recut mine but that is not the point.Take dog c out of the equation.Now,How far do you need to walk a and b before recasting?What ever distance that is,is still the distance with other dogs opening.

Just because you don't have to put the 8 on them and can must recut you still need to walk them away from that tree.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Dover, Ohio
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Just a piggy-back question to this thread: (just a different look)

So dog C goes back to its orginal tree but is not called treed and the stationary is put on him. Dogs A & B are cut loose and cover dog C.......if all dogs are struck in, but none of the handlers tree their dog, how are minus points given'. Take into consideration that all handlers know this tree is slick....I don't care about strike position, I would just like to know how the tree minus points would pan out.

My orginal thought was:

Dog C would get -125, because the stationary would catch him first.

Dogs A & B would get -62.5 each......the split of 2nd and 3rd tree.

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Last edited by shakethevine on 05-31-2011 at 08:34 PM

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Registered: Sep 2010
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shake under your scenerio dogs a,b and c would be scratched for violating the stationary(6q) rule.

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Registered: Sep 2010
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You can't minus a dog or scratch a dog for 6q if it is under a previously scored tree.

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Registered: Sep 2010
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jim i was reading it that dog c was on the split tree and was never treed there as per the original post.

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