Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

how many dogs do you think are really legit .

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 480

man! that's a loaded question! i wouldn't even go near that one and i will comment on just about anything!

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Mike Bertrand
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

quote:

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Originally posted by bert52
man! that's a loaded question! i wouldn't even go near that one and i will comment on just about anything!

---

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Mineral City OH
Posts: 701

I know a guy that made a dog Nitech that competed against 6 dogs total in 3 hunts and he did it in 2 weeks. Thats 1 or 2 dogs besides his at a hunt. I don't think its right because I've hunted with this dog a good bit and have yet to see it under a coon. I just don't consider that hard to do. Go to these hunts when its 15 degrees out no dogs no people. Then someone from the club takes you hunting because you drove there to hunt. Score a coon get your 25+ and a win slip. Ukc needs to put a minimum dog rule in the books.

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Last edited by Steve Gilland on 02-06-2011 at 07:41 PM

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 480

u will never stop the crooks no matter what stipulations u put on them...they will still get by and figure out how to get around rules

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Mike Bertrand
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Location: Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania
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Not sure about others, BUT I know my dogs all earned their titles the hard way, by working for them.

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 480

it is amazing when a question is put on the board like this....all of a sudden people are jumping on here defending their dogs as though their dogs and personal reps are coming into question....a question was asked about how many dogs titles are legit not anyones in particular!

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

I'd say most as in above 75% of the GrandNite Champions are pretty legit. I made 1 dog a GrandNite and it took me 2 years, lots of miles, lots of gas, and lots of money! It darned well better be legit!

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: MI
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Guess that all depends on who owns it and who is hunting it. There's crooks everywhere, even in the hound world.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 999

What's your definition of legit?
Every win earned and deserved........or a dog that can get the job done the majority of the time on any given night?

Anyone who has been on a Nite Hunt knows the best dog on the cast doesn't always win it.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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I'm not about to conmment about my own or anyone elses and I believe it varies from one part of the country to another part but here in northen Indiana/southern Michigan you don't get no cheap titles. Too many dogs trying to earn the same win.

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Registered: Aug 2008
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Posts: 509

It's sucks out here there ant no hunts and I was told that the club I am joining only has small turn outs but I will hunt them for the fun a to support my local club I might end up with a easy title but I will also be at AO this year because I want to hunt and compete and I just may have a dog that could win lol but as far as the people that go looking for a easy hunt to put a title on there dog or have to cheat to do it we all know who has better dogs!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 999

As western states go, you're lucky to be in MT! I think they probably hold the most UKC events of all the western states and I'm pretty sure they've hosted the Zone Hunt more than any other western states.
I spent the last 18 or so years competition hunting in the west and easy wins have been few and far between. Been to MT twice and wasn't even a threat to the cast winner either time.
I'm going to really miss the Nite Hunts and my friends in the west this year and I can't wait to move back that way......anywhere!! Would love to live in MT for a while now that I've found out the snow doesn't hurt too badly.

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Location: Western Pa
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
I'm not about to conmment about my own or anyone elses and I believe it varies from one part of the country to another part but here in northen Indiana/southern Michigan you don't get no cheap titles. Too many dogs trying to earn the same win.

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PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

I think if you enter anything anywhere and play by the rules, don't cheat, beg, borrow or steal anything to win then you played the game as you should have at the time. Who's the best? Who knows from one night to the next, when it's all done you're still standing there with a dog who don't know and don't care. This is all about what we want and care about. I have to feel good about me.

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Registered: Jun 2010
Location: howell,michigan
Posts: 769

a friend i hunt with had this male dog i hunted with all the time, dog tapped every tree he went by , i hardly ever seen him under a coon and i hunted with this dog all the time ,he was the biggest piece of crap i have ever seen, my friend sold him the guy that bought him took him to a hunt first night he had him and got a first on him making him a nite champion. so im going to say just about any dog can make night champion

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: western nc
Posts: 469

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Gilland
I know a guy that made a dog Nitech that competed against 6 dogs total in 3 hunts and he did it in 2 weeks. Thats 1 or 2 dogs besides his at a hunt. I don't think its right because I've hunted with this dog a good bit and have yet to see it under a coon. I just don't consider that hard to do. Go to these hunts when its 15 degrees out no dogs no people. Then someone from the club takes you hunting because you drove there to hunt. Score a coon get your 25+ and a win slip. Ukc needs to put a minimum dog rule in the books.

---

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Registered: May 2008
Location: indiana
Posts: 760

I agree it is pretty sickening when you draw a big name dog at a local hunt because the owner thought not many dogs would show up. Then not long after you see a stud ad in the bloodlines. I think if I had to go to that extreme to grand a dog I would just own a nite ch.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 1586

I would bet all the money I have (pretty weak bet!) that there are more dogs that won by being under coon than cheating to win. Yes, some dogs win by scoring on coon that other dogs tree but hey thats the game. U dont call that a coondog, you call that a paper dog but its still a legit title. It scored on coon in trees during the hunt period. You dont hafta like it. You hafta have something that can beat it. If UKC gave away titles to coondogs only it would be a pretty short list.

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

what im talkin about is buddies gettin together on a cast and scoring stuff that isnt there, bending the rules a little bit , money changing hands , small clubs giving wins that dogs didnt earn so that it looks like they got good dogs there,and slick handling .( things you hear about) stuff like that not a dog that is gettin under coons or coming to a small club because and getting a legit win . you cant help it if you go to a small club and they only have 1 reg, and 1 nitech cast , it happens some times. no the best dog doesnt win every cast . im seen some of the best dogs look like crap before . look at it this way , do you perform the same day in and day out all year long .

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 480

tim, i knew that u were talking about cheaters & not just winning at a small hunt...small hunts or large hunts as long as it is an honest win it is still a win in anybodys book. and if a person is just a pleasure hunter that is fine too! the comp world is not for everybody!

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Mike Bertrand
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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: minnesota
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Tim, here is another way to look at wether a dog is "legit" and whether titles are "legit" or not.
Let's say you take a good open dog to the hunts. in 3-5 hunts you make it a NiteCh. Now as a NiteCh you go to 5-10 hunts and make it a Grand. The dog has now been in 8-15 hunts and along the way 80% of the casts went great, every one got along good, and everyone thought your dog deserved the wins. But 20% you had to scrap a little to get the wins. You thought your dog deserved the win, but in maybe 2 hunts you had to really stick up for your dog, argue a little on behalf of the dog, keep someone from cheating you. So you got those wins too.

Now another guy has a pretty low quality hound and he has to take it to 15 hunts to make it a Nite CH and another 25 after that to make it a Grand. 40 hunts total to title the dog out. Now this handler is so used to loosing that he hardly even sticks up for his dog when other cast members try to cheat him. So everyone likes this guy- never gets in an argument or fight- he just folds when the judge says his dog moved or babbled, or when the judge minuses this guys circle tree right after circling his own tree that should have been minused. Everybody likes this guy- why wouldn't they- he paid 40 entry fees and supported every club in the area for several years to get that title on his dog.

But seriously, which dog deserves the title more? Which is more "legit"? Which of these hounds would you want holding a title, and a place a couple of generations back in your new dogs pedigree?

Everyone knows that a few dogs have gotten a few wins that they didn't deserve, but that dog was probably gonna get titled sooner or later. The cheating just kept them from having to attend as many hunts, and irritated a bunch of people along the way. But true legitimacy of a title may be pretty hard to really determine.

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85% gr.nt
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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 1885

quote:

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Originally posted by jamie stall
a friend i hunt with had this male dog i hunted with all the time, dog tapped every tree he went by , i hardly ever seen him under a coon and i hunted with this dog all the time ,he was the biggest piece of crap i have ever seen, my friend sold him the guy that bought him took him to a hunt first night he had him and got a first on him making him a nite champion. so im going to say just about any dog can make night champion

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Registered: Jul 2003
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Posts: 284

Bottom line............If you're looking at titles to judge breeding stock..............you'd better look deep.

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