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HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

Bucket Post Deleted?

What happened to Charles Pullen's post about what a MOH should do about a cast hunting over buckets if it's against the state law?

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10-06-2010 12:19 AM

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barryg35
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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: central , al
Posts: 1312

nipped in the bud!

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10-06-2010 01:20 PM

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HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

Hmmmmmm.

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10-06-2010 01:21 PM

Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
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It was removed after we answered and Pullen responded. I'll leave it at that.

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10-06-2010 01:22 PM

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HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

What was your answer? I didn't get to see it.

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10-06-2010 01:23 PM

barryg35
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: central , al
Posts: 1312

i didnt get to see the answer either.

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10-06-2010 01:26 PM

Bluedogman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Lumpkin, Ga
Posts: 8757

Forbidden fruit looks like!

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10-06-2010 01:35 PM

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Majestic Tree H
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

I've been talking this over and Its the Virginia State Law (No Bait to Run) that the Clubs must Adhere to So they can retain their License for Night Hunts.

But the Law Must be Stated Prior to the Draw Out to all Participants / Guides !!!

It can't be played as a Gotcha After the Hunt !! ...

Its up to the Guides to play by the Rules and Laws of the State

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10-06-2010 01:44 PM

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HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

I know what the state law is Steve. I'm just wondering what UKC had to say about it.

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10-06-2010 01:47 PM

Allen / UKC
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First, UKC has always suggested clubs are required to follow they're local and state game laws. If it is the law that feeder buckets are not allowed to be used in your state for the purpose of running raccoons in nite hunts or otherwise then those found to be in violation of such should be turned into your local authorities and are subject to any sanctions handed out by them.

Charles, to answer your question specifically, let's not get caught up in scratching cast members everytime you see a bucket somewhere. We all know that would lead to a huge mess. Instead report it to the club officers and if needed to your state or local officials. Your officials should be the ones determing whose guilty of what if anything and not some judge or handler of a nite hunt cast. Don;t you think that would be the best way to handle it? I can see where many handlers might be more interested in useing it as a tool to eliminate competition vs anything else. You?

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10-06-2010 03:22 PM

barryg35
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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: central , al
Posts: 1312

thank you.

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10-06-2010 03:27 PM

Buckshot
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

Wouldn't it be just easier for UKC to just ban feeder buckets period and get back to treeing coons the old fashion way -- without the need of aids??????????

Can't use a locating devise during hunt time to locate hounds but can use feed buckets to attract coons during hunt time?????

Yes, I am not a feeder bucket fan and do live in an area with thin coon.

Last edited by Buckshot on 10-06-2010 at 03:38 PM

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10-06-2010 03:36 PM

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SMITTY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 606

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
Wouldn't it be just easier for UKC to just ban feeder buckets period and get back to treeing coons the old fashion way -- without the need of aids??????????

Can't use a locating devise during hunt time to locate hounds but can use feed buckets to attract coons during hunt time?????

Yes, I am not a feeder bucket fan and do live in an area with thin coon.

Good Idea

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10-06-2010 03:41 PM

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OLD HENRY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location:
Posts: 43

ukc

still dont explain hobos question..........

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10-06-2010 03:41 PM

josh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

How can UKC possibly enforce a ban on feeders?

Its just never going to happen, man up and move on with life.

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10-06-2010 03:45 PM

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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
Wouldn't it be just easier for UKC to just ban feeder buckets period and get back to treeing coons the old fashion way -- without the need of aids??????????

Can't use a locating devise during hunt time to locate hounds but can use feed buckets to attract coons during hunt time?????

Yes, I am not a feeder bucket fan and do live in an area with thin coon.

It's hard to believe anyone has missed all the very valid reasons why UKC doesn't want anything to do with a feerder bucket rule. The main reason being that it is impossible to fairly enforce. Guides do not know every square foot of the area they hunt and would have no way of knowing everytime someone put a bucket out. Anyone could put a bucket in Buckshots favorite hunting spot and he would never know it until he ran up on it. What does he do then? Scratch the whole cast for hunting off buckets?

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10-06-2010 03:49 PM

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Majestic Tree H
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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

Like Allen said it will have to be handled at the local Club and State Officals for the Violations ..

Just State the Law out Clearly Before the Draw .

Thats all they can do . And if the Guide has continued Violations then ban them at the Club Level ..

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10-06-2010 04:02 PM

HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
First, UKC has always suggested clubs are required to follow they're local and state game laws. If it is the law that feeder buckets are not allowed to be used in your state for the purpose of running raccoons in nite hunts or otherwise then those found to be in violation of such should be turned into your local authorities and are subject to any sanctions handed out by them.

Charles, to answer your question specifically, let's not get caught up in scratching cast members everytime you see a bucket somewhere. We all know that would lead to a huge mess. Instead report it to the club officers and if needed to your state or local officials. Your officials should be the ones determing whose guilty of what if anything and not some judge or handler of a nite hunt cast. Don;t you think that would be the best way to handle it? I can see where many handlers might be more interested in useing it as a tool to eliminate competition vs anything else. You?

Answer's the question as to where UKC stands on it.

So basically you don't do anything to a guide/handler if they were to guide back on buckets that they have out.

Last edited by HOBO on 10-06-2010 at 04:12 PM

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10-06-2010 04:04 PM

Virgil
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2713

I dont see the big deal about buckets in hunts. The dogs still have to run and tree the coon. With the thin coon population we have around here it is far from a guarantee that you will strike a coon off a feeder bucket anyway.

Like Jim said there is no way to enforce it anyway. If it were a rule it would give the guide an easy out to scratch a cast of hunters if things werent going his way and wanted to keep the others from winning, just dump em on a bucket and scratch away.

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10-06-2010 04:07 PM

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HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

I don't think it's a problem myself and it hasn't been an issue here in Va until a couple of years ago with the Game Commision wrote it in the law book that it was illegal to have buckets. As far as I know the guys that had buckets out before the law still have them out now.

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10-06-2010 04:18 PM

Rick Gordon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Barboursville, Va.
Posts: 111

Its okay for a guide or judge to hunt buckets in Virginia, even thought its against state laws, page 14 of the VDGIF rule book, and if he is lucky enough to win his cast, what happens if he doesn't sign the score card?
Go figure

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10-06-2010 04:35 PM

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Allen / UKC
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Mr. Gordon, no it's not ok if it's against the law in VA or anywhere else. I think what some are suggesting is UKC bar individuals found to have violated local and state game laws? If so, then we should also start checking licenses and a bunch of other background checks at each and every hunt?

We are in the business of registering dogs and then we license events for those dogs to show their abilities and earn Championship points/wins and earn titles for them. We're not authorized to govern the laws of any state. We obviously recommend and expect clubs, first and formost, abide by their local and state laws. If they don;t then UKC has the authority to not approve them for licensed events.

I agree with the majority that it would be very, very difficult to enforce any policy against the use of feeder buckets, if we had such a policy. Just my two cents that's worth no more than that of the next guys.

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10-06-2010 06:27 PM

Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

So, if you don't think that a cast should hunt buckets then just call your local Game Warden and tell him the next time you have a hunt scheduled. He will "scratch" the cast. Excellant reply, Mr Gingrich, I too don't think that UKC should try to enforce State Game Laws. If someone thinks that casts should not be allowed to hunt buckets then they should propose a new rule to their appropriate delegate. Do you really think that a majority of night hunt participants don't think that casts should hunt buckets or bait piles? Using the State Law is just an attempt by a minority to get a rule passed that the majority does not want. It sounds like a political move to me.

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10-06-2010 06:48 PM

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hound-hunter101
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Posts: 117

Okay..here goes. I have been in enough hunts over the last several years to give an oppinion on buckets. In all my hunts I have participated in I can count on one hand how many buckets I have seen. If it is that rare to see them no big deal right? Now if every other hunt youre entering youre seeing buckets a change needs to be made. It's really that simple. A racoon is meant to be hunted free and wild not put into patterns like deer.

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10-06-2010 06:50 PM

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joey bourne
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 710

quote:
Originally posted by hound-hunter101
Okay..here goes. I have been in enough hunts over the last several years to give an oppinion on buckets. In all my hunts I have participated in I can count on one hand how many buckets I have seen. If it is that rare to see them no big deal right? Now if every other hunt youre entering youre seeing buckets a change needs to be made. It's really that simple. A racoon is meant to be hunted free and wild not put into patterns like deer.

IT'S A BUCKET EVERY DROP ON MY CLUB HERE IN S.C. "BUCKETS ARE OK HERE". NOT TO MY DOING, I THINK A DOG SHOULD HAVE TO BE A HUNTER TO MAKE A TITTLE. I SEE SO MANY DOGS THAT WON'T RANGE OUT AND FIND A COON DUE TO BEING DROPPED ON BUCKETS FROM A PUPPY TO DEATH. I KNOW THAT EACH PERSON HAS THERE OWN OPINION AND I RESPECT THAT. MINE IS THE REAL DOG VIA NOSE AND HUNT IS BEING BREED OUT BECAUSE OF THE LAZY PEOPLE WANTING A CLOSE WALK. THERE FOR A HOT NOSED FAST TRACK NO RANGING DOGS ARE BEING BORN. I KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL GET MAD OVER THIS STATEMENT BUT I RESPECT OTHERS OPINIONS THIS IS JUST MINE.

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10-06-2010 07:42 PM