Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Ladies and gents... I've been giving the topic of being cheated a lot of thought and have formed some opinions (of which I have many!) LOL!

You look at this message board and many others and see countless discussions on cheating or being cheated. Here's what I'm wondering... how many of these stories really have something to do with wrong-doing??? How many of them are not really someone being cheated, but rather a case of someone not knowing the rules, someone not knowing their dog, or simply an excuse for why Lucky didn't when last weekend.

I've been to several hunts lately and have been amazed by the number of folks that don't really know the rules (even some of the basic stuff) or know the rules well, but their own dog, not so well. If you think about it, it's fairly difficult to really get cheated. I mean most casts have a hunting judge where a majority of the cast make most of the decisions and you can place a question mark on anything you disagree with. I know you may be out $20, but if it's a clear case of cheating, then you won't be out anything, right?

Now I'm sure there are some cases where a majority ganged up on another hunter and made rulings that would be difficult to over-rule by a MOH or panel, but does that really happen that often? Or if you were taken advantage of, was it the other person's fault, or your own fault for not taking the time to read the back of the card. Or maybe neither of you knew the rules that well, and it's both your faults...

If we are to combat the anti-hunters and negative propaganda, we have to stop loading up these public forums with talk of us all being cheaters and liars. In fact on this very forum, I've been called a cheater and liar by folks that weren't even on the cast or at the hunt, to only be aplogized to later, when all of the facts came out. Should we really always be jumping to the conclusion, that someone did someone wrong, as opposed to a misunderstanding? I know for some, that it's fun to stir the pot. But is it really worth the negative publicity to other parties or our youth?

I'm not against speaking out on wrong-doing, I just wonder if sometimes it's and excuse for getting beat. I've personally been beaten a lot lately, by folks that took better dogs to the woods than I did or a matter of other circumstances, but I can't recall the last time I was cheated!

Just one man's opinion...

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location:
Posts: 1648

Best post on this message board!

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location:
Posts: 1648

quote:

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Originally posted by PullensRRK
But to your answer I
think there is at least 50% of CHEATING.


CHARLES PULLEN

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

I have another side of the story.

I got into this sport in my teens and was packing a very good dog.

I went to some hunts and had a greta time and drew out with many good people. Now life is not all a box of rosses. I went through a very bad stretch where every cast (UKC) I was on had problems. Mostly others gaining up on me so on so on.

I was sick to death of hearing well it's because you don't know the rules from people that had no clue as to what I know. I knew the rules very well back then, some were a little grey and what not but I knew them. When I seen outright cheating against me or another cast member I spoke out against it and got a bad reputation because of it.

You get labeled a cry baby, and a sore looser. I could care less what you think of me, don't judge me! judge my dog.

If only people did that, the hunts would be much more pleasurable.

For the past 5 years I can tell you every crooks name that I have drawn, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I can tell you exactly what they did to boot.

I do think alot of it (getting cheated) has to do with lack of experience and lack of knowledge in the hunts but this is not always the case.

I am a smart mouthed person and when I see nonsense going on during a hunt I speak up. You may cheat me and you just may get a win out of it but you better bet the whole coonhunting world will know about it.

I have been very fortunate over the past 10 or so hunts to not have a single problem other then a couple semi-rough dogs and what not. These hunts win or loose are very fun if you draw a good group of guys.

I have siad this before and I firmly believe it. THE ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF THE CROOKS IS TO MAKE THEM KNOWN.

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Registered: Not Yet
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That is a great post. I gree with it 100%

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 947

Ive never been cheated.Ive had some unsportsman like stuff go on against me but never cheated.I think there is more of that going around then anything.I dont cause a stink about it,if they want to win that bad they can have it.For the most part Ive had drawn out with some real good people.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: Albemarle North Carolina
Posts: 811

I have been cheated and at the time I felt like killing the cheater..........but I always said to myself "aint know use in crying about it cause I'm not the 1st nor the last",but I'm thankful that they did in a way cause it made me more aware of the different rules and how they can be used againts you and for you.
Have you ever heard the saying"Fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me".

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

I agree with the comments about unsportsmanlike conduct. I've seen my share of that! And don't get me wrong I've had people attempt to pull some fast ones, but I've cut them off at the pass. I beleive that if you know the rules, and see someone attempting to cheat, there's plenty of avenues to prevent it or dispute it. If you let it happen, you're simply reinforcing the behaviour.

At the same time there's a huge difference between someone competing aggresively (or what I would call cut-throat) and being a cheater. For instance, I beleive in showing another hunter their coon, but I don't have to. Now... not seeing a coon that is there, is also a different story.

But I still beleive that "being cheated" has all too often become the reason for not winning. Or... the explanation for why someone else does a lot of winning.

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: amelia va
Posts: 217

i was on a hunt last weekend and the coons were cheaten i bet we had atleast three run in a den now how am i supose to win like that

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

va.b&t - I've run into those guys, as well!

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: tioga co.pa
Posts: 1728

Last time I comp. hunted I was cheated along W/ another cast memb. When it was time to sign the sc, card i ripped lt up and threw it the air...(bad ass loser) ..Remember I drove 600+ miles to hunt...total 1200 +

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 228

cheated in a nite hunt.... U no NOT!!!!!lol.lol.lol.
Most of the cheating I've seen in a hunt had nothing to do with the rules. It had to do with somebody wanting to win at any cost.
One guy around here that hunts in alot of hunts says " when the tailgate drops the friendship stops " Alot of "Friends" have found this to be very true not just a joke. Pretty comical to me. Somebody that wants to win that bad is always a sore looser.

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: CAMPBELLSVILLE KY
Posts: 1428

Come on people drop you're ego and admitt you just got beat, made a bad call, dog made a mistake, what ever.You can't get cheated that much

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Come on people drop you're ego and admitt you just got beat, made a bad call, dog made a mistake, what ever.You can't get cheated that much

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: central , al
Posts: 1312

quote:

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Originally posted by deschmidt27
Ladies and gents... I've been giving the topic of being cheated a lot of thought and have formed some opinions (of which I have many!) LOL!

You look at this message board and many others and see countless discussions on cheating or being cheated. Here's what I'm wondering... how many of these stories really have something to do with wrong-doing??? How many of them are not really someone being cheated, but rather a case of someone not knowing the rules, someone not knowing their dog, or simply an excuse for why Lucky didn't when last weekend.

I've been to several hunts lately and have been amazed by the number of folks that don't really know the rules (even some of the basic stuff) or know the rules well, but their own dog, not so well. If you think about it, it's fairly difficult to really get cheated. I mean most casts have a hunting judge where a majority of the cast make most of the decisions and you can place a question mark on anything you disagree with. I know you may be out $20, but if it's a clear case of cheating, then you won't be out anything, right?

Now I'm sure there are some cases where a majority ganged up on another hunter and made rulings that would be difficult to over-rule by a MOH or panel, but does that really happen that often? Or if you were taken advantage of, was it the other person's fault, or your own fault for not taking the time to read the back of the card. Or maybe neither of you knew the rules that well, and it's both your faults...

If we are to combat the anti-hunters and negative propaganda, we have to stop loading up these public forums with talk of us all being cheaters and liars. In fact on this very forum, I've been called a cheater and liar by folks that weren't even on the cast or at the hunt, to only be aplogized to later, when all of the facts came out. Should we really always be jumping to the conclusion, that someone did someone wrong, as opposed to a misunderstanding? I know for some, that it's fun to stir the pot. But is it really worth the negative publicity to other parties or our youth?

I'm not against speaking out on wrong-doing, I just wonder if sometimes it's and excuse for getting beat. I've personally been beaten a lot lately, by folks that took better dogs to the woods than I did or a matter of other circumstances, but I can't recall the last time I was cheated!

Just one man's opinion...

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Blairsville ga
Posts: 602

im with you larry if the hunts were really as bad as people say why keep going i cant recall ever being actually cheated i havent really seen alot of unsportman like conduct had some ppl go blind deaf and dumb but i figured that was a medical excuse dont use bein cheated for an excuse for lack of DOG POWER, KNOWLEDGE

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Jason Harper

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: NORTHWEST GA
Posts: 337

IVE BEEN COMPETETION HUNTING THE PAST MTH HAD SOME GOOD CAST TREED SOME COONS THEN OF COURSE IVE HAD 2 OR 3 THAT WAS HELL!! ONE BOY HAD HIS BUDDY SITTING AT THE TREE ON A 4 WHEELER DIDNT CRANK UP AND DRIVE IN IT WAS PARKED. GOT A 1ST PLACE WIN ON HIS DOG THAT NITE. THE GUY ON THE 4 WHEELER HAD MY DOG WITH HIM!! U THINK I WASNT CHEATED? IF HIS DOG ISNT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN THEN I GUESS GET IT HOW U CAN LOL

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Blairsville ga
Posts: 602

that is bad but if he didnt crank it and drive in how did he know what tree to be at and if he was holdin your dog why not scratch his buddy that got the first you may have been cheated but this still falls under lack of knowledge

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Jason Harper

Last edited by harper english on 04-13-2010 at 12:04 AM

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Posts: 206

Why would the lack of Knowledge about the Rules keep you from Winning? If we are Sportsman like EVERYONE claims, why not help the guy out so the best dog wins and not the best Handler? I guess Im Dumb but this always makes me wonder.

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Chesapeake, Virginia

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 133

The cheatn aint as bad as a lot of people think, its hard for some people to understand that their dog does something wrong. Granted maybe pleasure hunting he doesnt but throw him in with three strange dogs anything can happen. What gets me on here is people that werent on casts and the go to bad mouthing the other guys dogs because they chased anything from a mouse to a buffalo and everything in between, but if it was their dog you wouldnt hear a word about it. If you just go to the hunt call your dog what its doing and be honest with yourself on what happened you will have little if any trouble!

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Registered: Nov 2009
Location: East TN
Posts: 256

I understand your frustrated.....But I know of three different coon clubs within less than an hour from me that opened long enough to champion their dogs and then closed. I'm sure you can figure out what happened inbetween opening and closing.

You tell me, does that not sound like some hinky buisness. I'm sure this is not a pratice at every club. But it sure turned me against going to any more hunts. Too each his own and I will never waist my gas going back to another hunt.

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Home of the pot lickers

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day! Teach a man to fish, and tomorrow he'll have all his buddies in your fishin' hole!

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Blairsville ga
Posts: 602

im not claimin to be a great sportsman i wont cheat you but if i can use rules in my advantage i will if my dog is not on your tree i will shine your tree for 1 minute to make my opinion on the scoring of the tree it is your responsibility to find your dogs coon not mine if you find it i will see it i like to win i enjoy competing at high levels if i wanted to just have fun i would have went pleasure hunting

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Jason Harper

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quote:

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Originally posted by max destruction
10 to 20% MAYBE!

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I don't know. I heard about that shady fella at the RQE in your cast that night. The other blue female

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: gillsville ga
Posts: 259

this is a team sport you and your dog versus me and my dog.

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: amelia va
Posts: 217

i have not been doing this long but i can catch on pretty quick.i have been rule whiped dog whiped and any other kind of whiped you can come up with.most of the time it was me our my dog to blame but everybody knows that nite chap. that does not deserve the title and i dont want one!!comp. hunting is stratagey and if you understand the rules and have any sense and a desent dog you are going to get some wins.it seems to me it would take some serious cheating to get a sorry dog to grandnite but i sure would not put money that it had never been done.sportsmanship is the key here there is alot more pride in having a dog everybody knows is a champ than one that is really not.and one more thing.you will not make freinds constantly slaming other peoples dogs or skills in a hunt if you have a good dog it is not going to be with the sorry dog, if it is maybe there is just a little more work to be done

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Registered: Nov 2009
Location: Millers Creek,Nc
Posts: 768

the problem is everybody is wanting a first place ukc i think should change the whole thing about hafting to have a first to be nite champion seen plenty of dogs around here that luck up and get a first that souldnt even have it i believe thats where the cheating goes on everybody wants that big score they should do it when if you 200 points in cast wins you should be nite champion cause you have won alot of cast wat do you guys think

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