Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 108

3 dog registered cast. You are the judge.

2nd drop of the night all dogs go in and get struck and treed relatively quickly. You handle the dogs and start to shine. One of the handlers says that he has the coon. You go over there and there is clearly no coon there. This tree has no leaves but has a decent hole in the side of it. You give him your laser pointer but he cant pin point where the coon is. The other handler comes over and says that he can see the coon. You tell them to walk to the other side of the tree and where you can see there is no coon. The tree is not very big and it is obvious that there is no coon. You put it to a vote and you vote to circle it and the other two vote to plus it. (the tree was plussed)THERE IS NO WAY THAT THEY SAW A COON. What do you do?

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 439

Prepare to have a bad night, LOL

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Pete Rhines

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

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Originally posted by Kickapoo Creek
What do you do?

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You keep hunting or go home. Thats all you can do. It was questioned , voted on , and scored. There is nothing left to do.

Sorry if that wasn't what you needed to hear , but its the truth.

The only other thing you can do is question it , but a MOH likely won't be interested in overturning a judgement call that he didn't see and wasn't there.

You can also tell the club officers if you truely thought they cheated. It won't change anything for your situation , but it will be a chink in thier record and they might not get to judge down the road at some point if complaints keep pileing up.Be advised though , many people will percieve that as whining and crying lol. Good luck .

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Last edited by longshot on 01-24-2010 at 03:25 AM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: indiana
Posts: 1119

Why did two vote to circle it, if it was clear there was no coon there. Should of been minus or plus..

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Co Owner of Pkc Silver Champion UKC Grandnite Champion
Akc Nitechampion
Smooth Talking Blue Cyclone

former co owner of
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Smooth Talking Sammy ( Son of Cyclone)

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

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Originally posted by masterd1976
Why did two vote to circle it, if it was clear there was no coon there. Should of been minus or plus..

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: indiana
Posts: 1119

quote:

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Originally posted by longshot
The vote was 1 circle and 2 plus.

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Co Owner of Pkc Silver Champion UKC Grandnite Champion
Akc Nitechampion
Smooth Talking Blue Cyclone

former co owner of
Ukc nitechampion at 12 months 2wins toward Grand
Smooth Talking Sammy ( Son of Cyclone)

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 108

I was the judge and I voted to circle as it was a legit circle due to there being a hole in the tree. The ONLY place a coon could have been was in that hole.
I withdrew and went home. Chalked it up to a bad experience. I have been at this game for 10 years and never seen cheating as obvious as this. I pretty sure it was cheating, they might just be stupid. I went and told the MOH, I knew nothing could be done, I just wanted him to know what kind of guys were on that cast.

Last edited by Kickapoo Creek on 01-24-2010 at 03:37 AM

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Registered: May 2007
Location: fairmont wv
Posts: 11948

thats why i never did the hunts you got the buddy system they do what helps there buddys dog so he can have a slick treein nite champion and grand nite not all of them slick trees but i have buddys that hunted the huntsthey just to much cheating and dishoset things go on in the nite hunts also a lot of the beaglers do the same way dont want to step on anybodys toes thisjmo

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

the best hunts i ever went to had non hunting judges

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

Last edited by toe cutter on 01-25-2010 at 05:32 AM

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Sandy Hook, KY
Posts: 1009

should have ben pluss if you go by the rules magurity wins that is just how it is now you know why the numbers is falling off in the hunts.it is called the budey steam it is just a game is all .

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i tell the truth about my dogs good or bad

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

The best way to TRY and put an end to that business is to formally question the call of the vote on the card after it has been voted to + the tree. If you are the judge, explain to them that you are the judge for a REASON and that the MOH assigned you that position for a REASON! explain that at the end of the night the vote will be taken back to the MOH and they are going to be written up for misconduct.

Usually once this is done (if it's early in the night) the riff raff usually comes to a quick halt.

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I agree with long shots reply. There is nothing to question. There is nothing to argue about. Two say they see the coon, one says he doesn't. Plus it, move on.....and don't mention it again.

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Registered: Apr 2006
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i didnt know you could use a laser pointer.when did they
change that?

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You could always use a laser pointer. A laser pointer is a light. You can't use a mirror.

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jculler, take it it back to the MOH. He will hear two castmembers say they saw a coon and one say he didn't. What can the MOH do? Absolutely nothing if he respects UKC rules. Keep in mind that UKC rules affirm that a hunting judge has not even one tiny morsal of more say in this siituation than than any other castmember. This is a tree vote with a hunting judge. Every vote is dead equal. File your Misconduct Report. I'm very sure UKC would not even give it a hearing.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
jculler, take it it back to the MOH. He will hear two castmembers say they saw a coon and one say he didn't. What can the MOH do? Absolutely nothing if he respects UKC rules. Keep in mind that UKC rules affirm that a hunting judge has not even one tiny morsal of more say in this siituation than than any other castmember. This is a tree vote with a hunting judge. Every vote is dead equal. File your Misconduct Report. I'm very sure UKC would not even give it a hearing.

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PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

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'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

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Ok...I won't disagree with that. But few things are as embarrassing as having your bluff called when you know it is just a bluff. . But I do see your point.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3232

Yes sir you clearly got out handled by the buddy system. Its been done to me too BUT I have also plused a few trees where the coon was "clearly" in plain veiw and the other handler honestly to goondess didnt see the coon.
In a cast like that I state my case, make it short in letting them know im upset and go to the next drop. Its not a good start but alot can happen in the cast the rest of the hunt unless im so far behind I cant catch up, then I grab the steering wheel and head for home with a bag of pork rines. Cause I got Porked lol

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Tan
GRNTCH PKC CH Coble & Stocking's Troubadour (Troubles) or (Trubs)

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Location: Western Pa
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Ok...I won't disagree with that. But few things are as embarrassing as having your bluff called when you know it is just a bluff. . But I do see your point.

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PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

Wonder if you'll ever be able to whip out a digital camera with the laser pointer and take it back to the MOH??? LOL

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PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

I WAS WRONG !!!

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

Last edited by toe cutter on 01-25-2010 at 05:30 AM

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Franklin, IN
Posts: 125

Some smaller clubs get reputations for this kinda stuff because the same local guys hunt out of them everytime they have a hunt theres two clubs close two me that I will not go to for that reason.

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Nathan Sawyer
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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

big hunt,little hunt,they all draw cheats.

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

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toe cutter, you are totally wrong in your post above. The judge is the judge and makes every decision with 3 exceptions. Those are scoring the tree, calling timeout and getting a dog off a previously scored tree. Everything else is a judges decision.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

i aint been to a ukc hunt in 15 yrs.things do change. dont that beat all..so now you really are hunting against the judge. even more obvious why some people only win when they are the judge.
must be why i hear so many people talking about getting beat because the judge kept minusing them on the strike. its just one advantage the judge has.
how can a ukc hunt be considered fair competition when one of the competitors has an advantage by being judge?

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

Last edited by toe cutter on 01-25-2010 at 05:39 AM

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