Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

I have read many many posts on how these two types of hounds should be pretty much the same. My question is, do qualities like:

Big Mouth
One bark Locate
Clear Changeover
Competitive Spirit

Enhance a dogs competitive ability where if it was just pleasure hunted the qualities would be nice but really wouldn't matter as long as the dog was nice otherwise???

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Ron Ashbaugh
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I don't know about everyone else but I pleasure hunt the same dogs I competition hunt

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Troupsburg NY
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i like them qualites

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If I don't like it well enough to compete with it, I'm sure I won't like it well enough to pleasure hunt with it.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: willis, michigan
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A good pleasure dog , and comp. dog are about the same but a lot of comp dogs like to get hooked from what Ive seen but might be wrong...

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I do alot of my pleasure hunting with my 78 year old grandfather so I like a dog that hunts somewhat close, checks in if there aint nothing running, and good stay put tree dog. Color, breed and papers dont matter!

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Registered: Dec 2003
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Can you have a nice coondog that has a hard time competing because it lacks the things I mentioned?

Does a dog have to be able to compete to be a nice hound?

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Ron Ashbaugh
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Id say a dog can be nice to hunt but lack a few things to make it competitive.

Competitive is also a realative term, To me, a competitive dog should at least win more than half the casts it is put in.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
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Not all hounds are bred to fit the ukc scorecard. An honest hound that takes a little time checking his tree will usually have that tree stolen by a hairtrigger treedog. Also, a cold nosed track hound that doesnt switch tracks can also be a disadvantage at the hunts. Bottom line though is ,I agree there really shouldnt be much of a difference, but it matters more what type of hunter you are. Do you only go for an hour and want a close hunter that handles well. Never go to nite hunts? Taking older hunters along? Most hunters will eventually end up with a dog that suits there hunting style rather than worry about pleasure or competition.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Briar,

My experience is that the real difference between a competition dog and a pleasure dog breaks down to how man excuses you want to hang on that dog.

If he's wallowing a track...he's just a pleasure dog, and I like to set on the tailgate and "listen to a good race".

If he's taking all night to get treed, and has located on four trees before he settles in....he's just a pleasure dog, and I like for one to take it's time to "be sure" before he commits.

If he's rattle headed and babbles for the first 5 minutes of every drop...he's "competitive, and likes to have first strike"

If he's a rattle headed idiot that never met a tree he didn't like....he's a competition dog, cause the pay window is at the bottom of a tree.

You get the idea.....

The bottom line is a dog that will go out, get struck, knows how to run or drift a track, is a quick sure locator that has a coon when they tree...that's a competition dog that is fun to hunt the other six nights of the week....

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Maybe it will help to be more clear about what I am talking about. This is my dog. She gets out gets struck and gets treed a good amount of the time and has done a nice job for her age (17 month). This was her first season and she was the only dog I hunted and we did pretty well but she was hunted almost 100% alone. I really enjoyed hunting her and we had way more good nights than bad nights. I shot a good amount of coon to her and basically just hide hunted.

The issue is that her running mouth and tree mouth are near the same and she does not have a distinct locate. The only way you can tell she is treed is that is becomes slightly louder because her head is up, not down. She does not have a good mouth and when she is hunted with other dogs she is just drowed out and I simply cannot hear what is going on.

Now my question becomes, here is a dog that can go out strike quick, move a track well and sit down with a coon as much as any dog. Now because her mouth is below average and it is very hard to tell even when she is by herself if she is treed or now, is she a poor dog just because I cannot successfully compete with her??

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Ron Ashbaugh
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I get a kick out of people that only pleasure hunt and think that all competition dogs are trash, running, slick treeing, me too dogs that can't tree a coon.

Then the hard competition hunters say the pleasure hunters only have slow dogs that boo hoo tracks all night then run them backwards at that.

I know a few guys that say well I need to get my dog in shape so i'm going to have to pleasure hunt him the next 2 weeks hard. My legs don't want to hear it though. Blow through the country type of dog, I know several of them that do alot of winning but I don't know how. Those are the kind that I don't enjoy pleasure hunting with.

I don't know how guys win alot with a 25 strike dog and 100 tree dog.

I entered my english dog in his first pkc hunt last year and he was a year and a half. He is a usually 25 strike dog and always 100 tree dog. He struck 2nd and I treed him. Another dog came in and covered him and he left. It got a lil rough and he wasn't ready and hadn't experienced a mean dog at that point. He went on to tree 3 coon to himself and I got beat by a quarter in a one hour hunt.

Next 2 hunts in pkc he got beat by 25 in both casts and he treed 2 coon to himself in each one hour cast but I had a quarter on all 4 coon. In my oppinion it's hard to win alot of casts with a 25 strike dog.

If you want to win alot you need a dog that will get it's mouth opened quicker then most.

Next hunt he treed 2 c

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Briar
Maybe it will help to be more clear about what I am talking about. This is my dog. She gets out gets struck and gets treed a good amount of the time and has done a nice job for her age (17 month). This was her first season and she was the only dog I hunted and we did pretty well but she was hunted almost 100% alone. I really enjoyed hunting her and we had way more good nights than bad nights. I shot a good amount of coon to her and basically just hide hunted.

The issue is that her running mouth and tree mouth are near the same and she does not have a distinct locate. The only way you can tell she is treed is that is becomes slightly louder because her head is up, not down. She does not have a good mouth and when she is hunted with other dogs she is just drowed out and I simply cannot hear what is going on.

Now my question becomes, here is a dog that can go out strike quick, move a track well and sit down with a coon as much as any dog. Now because her mouth is below average and it is very hard to tell even when she is by herself if she is treed or now, is she a poor dog just because I cannot successfully compete with her??

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Joe Newlin
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Put her in a few hunts, youll have your answere.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
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I bought an older gyp one time that was an outstanding coonhound. The boys I bought her from didnt comp hunt her much because she was soft mouthed and would get deep on occasion. I hunted this gyp alot by herself and then alot with other hounds until I knew her mouth inside and out. I qualifyed this gyp for the world hunt then went on and won several more hunts with her. I did have judges minus her,when I treed her, because they said they couldnt hear her. I made every judge that minused her that way, eat their words when we moved in on her and found her treed with the coon. A lot of times I had to re tree her where she had been the whole time, but usually still won my cast because she had a coon. Not the ideal competioin dog, beacause of her mouth, but just shows you can win if you know your hound inside and out.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
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quote:

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Originally posted by josh
Put her in a few hunts, youll have your answere.

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Ron Ashbaugh
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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Ontario
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quote:

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Originally posted by Briar

Now my question becomes, here is a dog that can go out strike quick, move a track well and sit down with a coon as much as any dog. Now because her mouth is below average and it is very hard to tell even when she is by herself if she is treed or now, is she a poor dog just because I cannot successfully compete with her?? [/B]

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: n.e. ohio
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mercer is only 45 min from me. i got a big mouth english gyp that is pretty quick. she has a u.k.c first on her and your welcome to come run yours against my gyp anytime. always lookin for new people to hunt with. and it will give you an idea of weather or not youll be able to call her.

sounds like you got a nice hound that has a fault.(her mouth) they all have faults the question is what faults can you live with..

let me know, your welcome anytime.

brad

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
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Thanks Brad, I would like that. This whole issue came to my attention because I have a couple of friends (now with forest I use that term loosly) that have two particular hounds with just some freight train mouths on them. When we hunted you would not have even known my dog was there. I would love to hunt with you at some point. Ron

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Ron Ashbaugh
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theres no difference to me.A coondog is a coondog regardless of pleasure hunting or competition hunting.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Mullins
theres no difference to me.A coondog is a coondog regardless of pleasure hunting or competition hunting.

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Registered: Sep 2009
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A big mouth and a distinctive locate are a big advantage in hunt but if you like the dog I would keep hunting her. There will be times when the mouth will hurt you but If the dog is good about treeing coons and doesn't make many mistakes I would say you can win some.

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Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
If I don't like it well enough to compete with it, I'm sure I won't like it well enough to pleasure hunt with it.

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Registered: Dec 2006
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that is my answer as well a coon dog is a plesure TO hunt and is a great comp. dog as well becalws COON DOGS WILL HAVE THE MEAT and beat the reast that woller tracks or *** up slick 5 pluss points beat 50000000 minus or circel points aney night

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Briar
I have read many many posts on how these two types of hounds should be pretty much the same. My question is, do qualities like:

Big Mouth
One bark Locate
Clear Changeover
Competitive Spirit

Enhance a dogs competitive ability where if it was just pleasure hunted the qualities would be nice but really wouldn't matter as long as the dog was nice otherwise???

---

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