Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 45

Three dog cast:
Dogs A and B are struck and get out of hearing. Dog C is working nearby but does not open and is not struck in. Cast walks toward A and B and can barely hear them, but hear them enough to break the eight minute rule which is started several times. Finally, A and B are declared treed, but still at some distance. Dog C is still heard moving around near the cast, but is not opening. Cast moves toward tree, stopping occasionally to listen for dog C and to hear Dogs A and B. Cast finally arrives at tree after about 20 minutes from time dogs declared treed. When cast arrives, A and B are treeing and so is Dog C which apparently arrived just before cast since it was not heard barking before that point. Dog C was neverr declared struck or treed. All dogs are leashed, tree is shined and coon is seen. How is Dog C scored?

I have seen a similar scenario on a couple of occasions and it is usually scored with Dog C receiving next available tree points and minused. However, I can't seem to find the rule that applies. Rule 4g states that "dog treeing, but not declared treed, when judge arrives will be minused on tree points on off game or slick tree." Rule 5b says "no dog to receive minus points for coming into tree after judge arrives unless a coon is seen". Rule 5g says delete points "when dog that is shut out comes into tree shut out on".

It seems that Dog C should be penalized for getting to the tree so late, but I can't seem to find the appropriate rule.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

Good question.

One way of looking at it is the dog was not struck and deserves strike points assigned and minused for that. Thats probably what I'd go with.

Had he been struck, he would have been shut out on strike and had them deleted.

There's no provision for assigning tree points when a coon is seen.

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: The banks of The Big Muddy
Posts: 482

After the 5, before the judge.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

4j

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

Boils down to wheather the dog was treeing before the cast arrived, if it was the judge should have put on the brakes and asked for a call. Since he didnt do that and the dog was not on the card there are no points assigned to be minused. Dog c. stays at zero.

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Registered: Not Yet
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I may be wrong (because of dog C being shutout) but I believe rule 4(j) is the only rule that can be applied here. I don't think there is any situation where a dog can bark three times after the 1st minute and not be struck without penalty, not even if that dog is shutout. If I had been judging this situation, I would have counted 4 barks and minused dog C next available strike postion and if the handler still doesn't strike that dog, I'd count four more barks and scratch dog C. Nothing in the rules excuses a dog at a tree from being required to be struck in.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

Jim what if he has handled the dog without treeing it

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
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quote:

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Originally posted by blueticking: it
Jim what if he has handled the dog without treeing it

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

thanks,im getting lazy and didnt want to read back thru.
so in a nutshell it is good sportsmanship to strike & tree
everytime,you can only receive the bad.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

I think it boils down to when dog c arrived at the tree. If hes there ahead of the cast he should have been required to call his dog or be assigned strike points and minused, but i disagree with jim if he feels he can assign and minus the dog after we arrive at the tree and the dogs are handled. Jim As far as what you said about a dog not being excused at a tree from being struck, I believe that changes as soon as the cast has arrived. I hope c isnt my dog but if he is and you start assigning and minusing after we arrive at the tree we will be headed to the clubhouse.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

mr. duemmer my rule book says nothing about a tree its
says several times in it a dog has to be stuck in by the
3rd bark or scratched on 2nd time.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

Assume for a second that dog c comes in while the tree is being shined and barks, are you going to require he be struck or minused?

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Registered: Apr 2006
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Posts: 6548

take it like a man John,i could have stayed home with the
wife & kids

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Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
Assume for a second that dog c comes in while the tree is being shined and barks, are you going to require he be struck or minused?

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

In the original post it was said that the gog was not heard to bark before the cast arrived so i would think 5g would apply.

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Registered: Oct 2009
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I guess you and I would just have to be there.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 45

Slightly different situation:

What if Dog C is struck in after Dogs A and B are declared treed but does not get to the tree until after the 5 minutes are up? When cast arrives, Dog C is treeing. Coon is seen.

Does Dog C have its strike points deleted and no tree points scored? Rule 5g?

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Registered: Not Yet
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If dog C strikes in after the dogs are treed, it doesn't matter when dog C gets there, his strike is deleted. There is no circumstance where a dog shutout on strike can be minused strike points if it covers the tree it was shutout on. The rule requireing dogs to be struck on or before the 3rd bark has nothing to do with being shutout. It makes no difference when, where or how a dog barks those 3 times. It makes no difference what the circumstances are. 4 barks after the 1st minute without being struck, you get minused, 4 more your dog is gone.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 45

Okay. I'm clear on the strike points. What about tree points in the above situation?

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What tree points? The dog was never treed. There no tree points to score.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

The ONLY time you can "assign" points in a UKC hunt is when a dog is at the tree AND TREEING before the judge arrives at either a SLICK or OFF GAME TREE, and the origional dogs must be minused as well.

In other words you can't assign tree points to a dog on anything but a minus tree.

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