Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Calhoun KY
Posts: 995

WHEN Will judges Start ENFORCING the Rules in Hunting beagle!!!!!!!
I have seen Rougher Running Dogs in UKC in the last couple of years than ANY of the other Formats...
but When mentioned All I have been getting for an answer is Well ya gotta judge What they Brung

DO YOU???? have to judge What they Brung???
If So then judge Em by the rules!!!!


6. DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED:


q. For “rough-running,” “cutting,” or “slashing” on track on second offense. (This rule to be rigidly enforced.)


b. Speed and Drive: Dogs to pursue rabbit as fast as scenting conditions allow, but must exhibit good line control. Dog(s) observed to be “running rough,” “cutting,” or “slashing” on track will be scratched on second offense. Rough Running is defined as attempting to run the front of the pack faster than scenting conditions allow or without regard for the actual line. Routinely overshooting turns leading pack mates astray.

Cutting is defined as attempting to run the front byleaving the trail to head off pack mates or avoiding heavy cover and other obstacles.
Slashing is defined as running in a hit or miss fashion as a result of gambling and without regard for the actual line.
Judge to score dogs on speed and drive as rabbit is circled and seen by a cast member. Dogs to be scored as they trail through the line at the approximate location that rabbit is seen. It must be obvious that a dog is NOT trailing in order to deny the dog on Speed and Drive. At time rabbit is seen, Judge or majority of cast if hunting Judge is used, must decide whether to allow dog(s) to continue on trail or pick up dog(s) in order to find new ground or another rabbit. Speed and drive points are awarded in order that dogs pass, splitting points when positions cannot be determined. After first dog has been scored on Speed and Drive, there is a one minute time limit to score remaining dogs on that line. Dog(s) must be open on the majority of circle being scored
in order to be scored. If allowed to continue on trail, score initial strike points and each time rabbit is circled and seen, score speed and drive only. Speed and drive may be scored three (3) times only on the same rabbit. If loss occurs before completion of any additional circle, each dog declared struck to be scored 50 minus points in the losses/recoveries column. However, in case of split tracks, see rule 3(d). Otherwise, no dog(s) to be called off a trail without those points being minused.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: marion ohio
Posts: 160

I agree that the rough running rule is not used properly. For example I was in a world qualifier and the pack came through and overran by 25 yards with not even a warning for rough running. Then the lead dog ran a 50 yard circle for the check and ran the track backwards to the point of loss still no warning. I then pointed it out to the judge and the next time he did warn the dog for back tracking. He never did scratch the dog and it did this the entire day then won the cast. I hope I don't draw that dog at the world.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greensburg, IN
Posts: 964

Never looked at it in that way before. I agree it is not enforced as well. Can not say I have ever been in a cast and seen a dog picked up for rough running. Seen them warned for a back track but as for cutting, or anything like that I have not. But from what i understand if enforced Hunting Beagle would be more strict then Performance Pack. See in performance pack you can cut, slash, reach, backtrack, or anything to mess up the pack three times before you get picked up (grant the judge sees it) and they get three chances in a hour. In hunting beagle you only get a warning then you go to the truck and you have to do this in two hours. I just was amazed on how well the actual running rules are written on rough running. Great post tjcrewse.

Gary

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Buckeye State
Posts: 431

Wildmountains, your right it could be judged better maybe. But in PP I've seen way more dogs picked up in a hour than all my trials in the last 5 years of HB. I've seen more than one dog picked up many times. Heck even last year, Travis M. picked up 4 out of the 5 dogs at the world, and the 5 dog had 2 minus' on him. So I wouldn't say that hb is stricter than the pp in any way. I judge both formats, and based on the rules, the pp rewards the dogs more for holding and keeping a track going. In hb, we use the angle of the rules to manipulate a lot of outcomes. Yes I'm talking about, calling holes, majority outvoting, not being at the line on time, I can go on and on. And the best, plussing the strikes, only after seeing a piece of the track, when some of the dogs, might miss it, that have been controlling it from the beginning. I believe if just a few rules would be changed or modified it would change a lot for the format, I know the two formats are different, but a good rabbit dog can excel in both. If you look at both rule books, they have almost all the same things to be picked up. I hear some people say dogs cant run the same format. Thats bs. If your dogs run without being scratched for any of reasons stated in the rule book, you could run any format out there.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greensburg, IN
Posts: 964

I totally agree with ya i judge in both formats along with arha progressive pack. The only thing was trying to get across is if you judge by how the rules read and compare the second time a hound is caught for rough running then it goes to the truck. If these rules was enforced I am saying not only do the dogs running in Performance Pack get one more chance to make a mistake they only have to run half the amount of time per cast. Meaning a hound can reach three times, backtrack, pull the pack anything to disrupt the pack three times compared to Hunting Beagles two time. The hunting beagle dogs have to not mess up for two hours not a one hour cast. I like both formats was just commenting on the hard truth of the two formats. These post I have seen on here lately have been great and very inform able.

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GBHGCountryBeagles.webs.com

HOME OF UKC'S FIRST FIVE WAY CHAMPION (w/ these titles)
NGRC GRCH GRHBCH CCH PCH Crewse-N Country Girls Cleo
HOME OF THE FIRST WHITE RIVER PERFORMANCE PACK CHAMPION
GRPCH GRHBCH GRCH 'PR' White River Indiana Kimba *Ricki*
CH HBCH PCH GBHG Country Keep Fly'n on the Trak
CH HBCH Highbar Sockit Toem Lone Ranger
CH HBCH Red Hot to Service the Queen
CH CCH GBHG Country Look at me again
CCH C Rockin Guns' N Roses

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Danville, IN
Posts: 432

Are you saying I'm to strict... That's the first time I've been told that, Lol I do pick up a lot of dogs in PP I like to get the bad ones out of the way and let the better ones have a chance at running a rabbit the way it should be done.

I give them all a fair shake each time out and sometimes a dog that has been picked up by myself before wins the next time I judge them.

A lot of times a guy or gal will come back and say "yep I got picked up" but what the guys not telling you is "yep my dog had two non produces and the judge dinged them once" that's not the judges fault the dog was a little mouthy or just didn't get it going in the 4 mins.

Just so you know I'm not upset at all by your comment Jeremy actually I take it as a compliment.

I go by the rules to a T and if a dog gets themselves in trouble that's not my fault.

At most of the hunts I judge large or small the dog I bring back normally does very well at the hunt. Its the guys that bring back the dogs with no minus that you need to be worried about.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Buckeye State
Posts: 431

Travis, Im not at any way saying that I disagree, I was just getting across to Gary about the diferences of the two. I just used u as an example. Nothing bad about your judging just one situation, thats all, keep up the good work, its hard to find judges, I know.

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Lightning Strike Kennels

• WorldPCH GrHbCh Pch JG'S On The Move Prune Juice
  
• HBCH JG'S Lightning Striking Larry
  
• HBCH JG'S Buckeye Mark V'S Trapper (RIP-9-23-09)
  
• HBCH Hy-View Beeline Beulah
  

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Danville, IN
Posts: 432

Jeremy give me a call

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Travis McCarthy
mccarthysroofing@att.net
317-563-2949

M and M Beagles

Home of
2006 PP World Hunt 5th place
2008 PP Nationals Grand Class Winner
2008 PP World Hunt 8th place
GRPCH HBCH M and M's Diamond in the Ruff (RIP)

2009 PP Nationals Grand Class Winner
2011 PP Nationals Grand Class Winner
2011 PP World Hunt 3rd place
NBPPA HOF
GRHBCH GRPCH GRCH M and M's Rocky

2012 PP World Hunt 8th place
PCH M and M's Abby

PCH M and M's Little Red

PCH Reinhart's Sizzlin Sadie (RIP)

PCH Glomski's Cody

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location:
Posts: 284

In some formats barking on the way back to the point of loss is not considered "backtracking". ARHA is this way and I don't see a written definition in the UKC rules.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: MORGANTOWN, WV
Posts: 38

quote:

---

Originally posted by justsandm
In some formats barking on the way back to the point of loss is not considered "backtracking". ARHA is this way and I don't see a written definition in the UKC rules.

---

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location:
Posts: 284

That's what I said. Thanks for restating it.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: MORGANTOWN, WV
Posts: 38

Sorry Justsandm, I misread your post, my fault

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