Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Seymour, Missouri
Posts: 250

I just have a general question or thought that I would like peoples input on.

Do you as a judge of a cast give any leniency to dogs due to the extreme heat? For instance: On tree if dogs have been treed and have held for their five minutes and when you get to tree dogs are looking up tree but to hot to bark, is that good enough in your opions to satisfy "showing the tree" or would you make them bark before you would allow the dogs to be handled?

Do you be a stickler for the rules no matter what the conditions you are hunting in or would you show good sportsmanship and be satisfied with dogs showing tree by looking up/at/or on tree without them barking?

I would also like to hear Tood or Tanks opinion on the subject.

I'll give my story at the end of a few responses and then let you decide what you as a judge would have done.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

I dont see why you would need to...A dog standing at the base of the tree panting would be showing the tree. (IMHO)

As long as the 2 dosent get them, I dont see a problem.

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Yes I would, two weeks ago a dog treed for 15 min before we could get to it.I was the judge and walking in to the dog it stop barking when we were 75 yards from it. I started the 2 on the tree but told them to keep walking.I knew the dog was hot. When we got to it, it had chewd the tree to pieces and was standing looking up the tree. I had the handler get his dog and we found the coon.That tree made me lose the cast.I judged a cast at our state hunt and a dog came by us, went ten yards and started bugger barking I knew somthing was wrong and told the handler not to strike the dog.When we walked over to it had been bit by a cotten mouth and was barking at it. If the dog would have been deeper in the woods and I didnt know that somthing was wrong he would have had to strike his dog. My point is some times you have to use a little sense.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

What rule states that a dog must be barking to show the tree??

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Thats true Doug, the dog has to bark in the 2 min. or he is minusd, but if you can hear the dog while you are walking you can keep walking. If you get to the dog before the 2 is up ,but is still showing tree i.e looking up it can be handled.

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Around here if the dog ain't bark'in , it ain't treed. The rule says they have to bark every two minutes even after the 5 is up. They stop barking, you put the two on them. They don't bark in two minutes, they get minused. That's the rule. The rule doesn't say anything about "except in hot weather".

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Seymour, Missouri
Posts: 250

4 dog cast, within first 10 minutes dogs are struck and 3 dogs are treed. Takes about another 20 minutes to get to them. Dogs are handled and tree is scored, coon seen in less than 10 seconds.

Walk dogs about 100 ft and recast to dog trailing. My dog strikes a little in front of us and makes about a half circle around us and trees again. He's treed about 45-50 ft away from us. He holds his tree pressure for the full five, but not barking excessively by any means. Comments are made about him being pretty hot since he had now been treed about 30 minutes of the hunt with only about 40 minutes gone in the hunt. Judge states that dog will have to bark again after the five and has the two running on him, of course he barks in just a few seconds and we proceed towards the tree. Judge takes about 5 steps and stops and puts the two back on him. In the mean time we can plainly hear him panting directly in front of us. He opens again and we wade through the underbrush towards him. We get to within 5 ft of my dog before we can see him standing at the tree looking directly at the tree. This is when judge states my dog will have to bark up the tree to show him which tree he is treed on. It's pretty thick in this particular spot but dog is obviously looking at the one tree by standing there actually looking up the tree.

Judge flips his light up on bright and points it directly on my dog. Now some of you may have read in the past where I prefer pleasure hunting over competition hunting and I have trained my dogs as such. When I get to tree I have my dogs come to me at the tree so I can leash them up and tie them back. They don't meet me off the tree, but when I get there, they come around the tree to me to be handled. We are five feet from my dog and he does exactly as I've trained him to do. He comes to me and stands beside me to be handled. As my dog comes to me he is wobbleing and about to fall over from being so hot. Judge then states that he is going to minus dog for not being treed and minus track points as well because he came in.

Now, this is for JiM, are you saying you would minus my dog in this situation?

By the way, this is not at a UKC hunt. I may be one of the few on here that enjoy hunting in both registries competitions. However, I can see this happening at a UKC hunt so thought it relevant to get some of your opinions on the matter.

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Last edited by Jim Harris on 08-18-2003 at 10:21 PM

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If I were judgeing that cast I'd have told the handler to handle his dog and scored the tree. I the judge let you get within 5 feet of the dog, he should have allowed you to handle him. Thanks for giving the full explaination of what happened.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 166

I would'nt think all dogs have to bark after the 5 is over and the tree is closed. every one of you has ears and you know only one dog has to bark witin two minutes during the 5 minutes when they are declared treeed. after the five if your at the tree go handle your dog.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 437

I would have scored the tree and then asked the guide where the nearest water is. If the cast found that unacceptable then I would withdraw. As a handler I would rather flush 1500 points down the toilet and get the dog cooled off so it could hunt another day. Heck I would jump in the creek with the dog and we would both feel better LOL.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Bolivia,NC
Posts: 605

That judge needed an intellectual understanding of the dogs predicament...............ie......an intellectual attitude adjustment afterwards!!!!!!!TCB

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Salem,Missouri
Posts: 4917

if the dog was not showing the judge what tree he was on how did the judge manage to walk with in five feet of the tree through underbrush to him????? ( duh!!! )

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Seymour, Missouri
Posts: 250

Basically the judge stated that it was okay for my dog to come to me but he minused me because the dog didn't go back to tree and tree satisfactory, even though it was plainly obvious what tree he was on when we got to him. To me, I would not consider the dog traveling 5 ft as having come off tree to meet handler.

TCB, trust me, I wanted to do some attitude adjustments right then and there, but at the same time I felt that he could minus me all he wants, I had enough faith in my dog to overcome this particular minus.

Have any of you ever been to the woods on a competition hunt where from the first bark your dog makes you say to yourself, "School is now in session" or something like that. I could tell from the first bark my old dog made that he was about to take the other three dogs in the cast to class and show them how it was supposed to be done. In my opinion he did exactly that, I was just out "handled" by the time the two hours were over and the above situation is what started it all.

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