Registered: Jan 2009
Location: NC Swamps
Posts: 96

this morning I heard it. It was about dogfighting, Michael Vick, and offering a 5000 dollar reward for info on dogfighting.
Being that the Bigshow has a target audience of the outdoors, hunting, and fishing type I thought it sure seemed in conflict. Let them know what you think of HSUS, one of the biggest if not the biggest anti hunting lobby group in the US. Call the Bigshow or mail, email them and let them know.........
Humane Society of the US is not humane, they are hypocrites when you look at their beliefs, and they want their beliefs to be pushed and legislated on all the rest of the country.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2161

Does this mean that you support dogfighting?

I see an ad like this as a good thing. #1) An ad message against dog fighting is a good message to spread in my opinion, and #2) That's less money that they have to spend on anti-hunting messages. Heck, let them spend all of their money opposing dog fighting!!!

I'd much rather see them spend their money against dog fighting than spend it against hunting!

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1253

Actually, it works the other way around - they use fund raising from stuff like dogfighting, and animal cruelty, and things that EVERYONE is against, and then they use that money to fund their anti-hunting and anti-breeding campaigns.
They raised a ton of money over Vick's dogs, but never actually had custody of them, or spent any money on their care....
Laurie

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Location: NC Swamps
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Honalieh:
NO i dont support it, but i am apalled at the fact they are using a commercial for any purpose on the Bigshow, a country boy, southern oriented comedy show,,,, now i would understand it being on a tv show like Ellen degenerate, but not JOhn Boy and Billy........, they are making inroads into a different venue.
and as far as money goes they got plenty more,,,,lots more as a matter of fact, and spending ad money on this aint gonna have one little dent on their antihunting message and that is the next domino to fall for them,,,,,,dont be fooled by their "goodness"

They raised a ton of money over Vick's dogs, but never actually had custody of them, or spent any money on their care....
Laurie


well said Laurie,,,,and true too,,,,glad you have your eyes open.
CC

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

This is just another money-raising ploy of HSUS to get more donations from a public that is unaware of the H$U$ goal of ZERO DOMESTIC ANIMAL POPULATION. By donating to H$U$, people are contributing to H$U$ national legislation bills that will outlaw their ability to own pets or ANY domestic animals.
Quote from Wayne Pacelle, president of H$U$, former director of Fund for ANimals, former VP of PETA, "One generation and out. We have no problems with the extinction of domestic animals. They are the creations of human selective breeding."

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 1163

ATTENTION HUNTERS !!!!

Do not, I repeat do not, demonize dog fighting...... While I am against it personally as I love dogs and wouldn't want to see them fighting each other..... if others want to do it I don't think we should be picking fights with them.

How are you going to articulate that two dogs fighting is wrong... but a dog and a coyote fighting is o.k.????? Or a dog and a raccoon is o.k.???? Since the big Michael Vick fiasco we've already seen the anti's go after running pens under the same assumptions.

Animals don't have rights, they are property. Once we open the door to tell others what they can and can't do with theirs.... the door is wide open for others to tell us what we can and can't do with ours. LEAVE THE DOOR CLOSED !!!!!!

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Georgetown, S.C.
Posts: 523

JUST ADDED THEM TO THE LIST WITH CARRIE UNDERWOOD.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

quote:

---

Originally posted by houndsound
ATTENTION HUNTERS !!!!

Do not, I repeat do not, demonize dog fighting...... While I am against it personally as I love dogs and wouldn't want to see them fighting each other..... if others want to do it I don't think we should be picking fights with them.

How are you going to articulate that two dogs fighting is wrong... but a dog and a coyote fighting is o.k.????? Or a dog and a raccoon is o.k.???? Since the big Michael Vick fiasco we've already seen the anti's go after running pens under the same assumptions.

Animals don't have rights, they are property. Once we open the door to tell others what they can and can't do with theirs.... the door is wide open for others to tell us what we can and can't do with ours. LEAVE THE DOOR CLOSED !!!!!!

---

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

Every time H$U$ runs an ad, they take people to their
"Warm & Fuzzy" mantras & web site that causes the public to DONATE to them. The dog fighting issue is just a way to lure donations, just like the titles of their Legislative bills mislead legislators to support them because the titles tug at heartstrings - but if the legislators actually read the ENTIRE bills they would realize there's a radical agenda thread to ALL of them & the titles of the bills are LIES.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 1163

quote:

---

Originally posted by rance56
you are wrong sir-dogs are domesticated animals, coyotes and coons are not.

---

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 1163

Here's an email link to let the show know how you feel. I just sent them an email telling them I would not listen to the show anymore until they stop allowing HSUS to advertise with them. Let's see how many emails we can send them.

mailbag2@thebigshow.com

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

quote:

---

Originally posted by houndsound
I doubt the dogs used for dog fights are very "domesticated". But they are animals none the less.... don't think I'm wrong about that... but I don't want to argue about it...... like I said I wouldn't want anything to do with dog fighting, but I also am not going to start defining what can and can't be done with animals because one person defines them as domesticated or not... like I said that just opens the door!

---

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 1163

Wow, so I'm chicken @$*& now.... mmmmm O.K.????? Well here's exactly what I believe so there's no confusion....

If an activity does not:
1. hurt anyone else
2. hurt anyone else's property
3. hurt the well being of society
4. or create a substantial risk of any of those three...

then nobody needs to be telling anyone that activity needs to be or not to be participated in because it's none of their business. It's America... if it doesn't hurt you... then let freedom ring. I don't like dog fighting, I don't have to.... but it doesn't hurt me, doesn't hurt my property, doesn't hurt the well being of the society I live in so who am I to tell them not to do it? If I do, I open the door and legitimize the anti hunting morons that want to tell me I shouldn't hunt coons with my hounds or rabbits with my beagles (both activities that use domesticated animals). And just to address the point, just because an animal is domesticated does not give it rights... domesticated or not animals are property, they are not human.

So there's my thinking, it's also known as freedom. If that's chicken $#@% that's fine. If you think agreeing and siding with HSUS is a good thing and makes you somehow brave or whatever, go ahead.

By the way, why start name calling? How old are you? Is that how you respond just because someone has a different opinion then you? Really ??????

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

YESTERDAY.

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: NC Swamps
Posts: 96

quote:

---

Originally posted by houndsound
I doubt the dogs used for dog fights are very "domesticated". But they are animals none the less.... don't think I'm wrong about that... but I don't want to argue about it...... like I said I wouldn't want anything to do with dog fighting, but I also am not going to start defining what can and can't be done with animals because one person defines them as domesticated or not... like I said that just opens the door!

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

first off, someone that wants to not condemn the fighting of dogs, is probally of low intelligence. and that is evident by your lack of comprehension skills-where did i say i agreed with HSUS? where did I call you a name? you allege both, so please copy and paste it from my post.

i will stand alone before i stand with the likes of those that fight dogs and train fighting dogs. we are the most civivlized society in the world, and need to act like it. im sure the vast vast majority of those that fight dogs are scumbags, who lack intelligence, lack class, lack character and morals, and most likely arent a productive citizen in any capacity. for those hunting dogs that need culling, by all means do it. but if you want to fight something, go pick a fight with a man or leave man's best freind alone and get you some roosters.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 63

Dog fighting is illegal in every state. If you say we have to support it to keep hunting with dogs we are in trouble. I think we need to focus on the differences. I think we all try to keep the suffering of game to a minimum . Most dog fighters believe the more a dog suffers the tougher it will be. I will never support these people.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

Not convinced about HSUS misleading the public?
http://www.v-abs.com/HSUS.htm and
http://www.humanewatch.org What kind
of group besides PETA— wants to hire convicted felons?
HSUS. Yet, HSUS contributed $$ toward the proposed law against
radical extremists targeting scientists and their families in
CA. Why? Because HSUS is attempting to make it look like
they don’t condone violence, yet HSUS does fundraisers for
convicted eco-terrorists, one of which was on 12/13/08.

In 2005 Pacelle announced the formation of a new “Animal
Protection Litigation Section” within HSUS, dedicated to “the process of researching, preparing, and prosecuting animal protection lawsuits in state and federal court.”

What this really means is HSUS becomes involved in
LEGISLATION aimed at stopping the selling of pets, notably
dogs; HSUS puts videos on mainstream TV and then tells the
public to donate, while saying HSUS is busting dog kennels—but behind the scenes, they are advising cities to implement
sterilization of all pets, no buying, no breeding of animals,
and forced adoption of shelter animals, not buying from stores;
HSUS attempts to help pass laws pushing MSN, forfeiture of
dogs, and restrictions of pets including no tethering, etc]

2000………….HSUS uses convicted felon, avowed member of Animal
Liberation Front (ALF), JP Goodwin (2008)–Goodwin is claimed
to be an “expert” in dogfighting by HSUS, however when in court
to testify as such, the court found he was NOT an expert. He may have experience being in prison, but he’s not an expert on dogs Why would anyone want to donate to a group
that hires felons? That fundraises for felons?

In addition to the HSUS flagship offices in Maryland and DC,
the organization’s global network includes control over the
following legal corporations (this list is evolving as new
information becomes available):

Nonprofit affiliates:

Alice Morgan Wright-Edith Goode Fund (DC);
Alternative Congress Trust (DC);
Animal Channel (DC);
Association Humanataria De Costa Rica;
Center for the Respect of Life and Environment (DC);
Charlotte and William Parks Foundation for Animal Welfare (DC);
Conservation Endowment Fund (see ICEC) (CA);
Earth Restoration Corps. (DC);
Earthkind Inc. (DC);
Earthkind International Inc. (DC);
Earthkind USA (DC);
Earthkind USA (MT);
Earthkind UK [ also affiliated with the International Fund for
Animal Welfare];
Earthvoice (DC);
Earthvoice International (DC);
Eating with a Conscience Campaign (DC);
HSUS Hollywood Office (formerly The Ark Trust Inc.) (CA);
Humane Society International (DC), which also operates
the International Center for Earth Concerns (ICEC) in Ojai,
California,
the Center for Earth Concerns in Costa Rica, and
the Conservation Endowment Fund in California;
Humane Society International Australian Office Inc.;
Humane Society International of Latin America;
Humane Society of the United States (DE);
Humane Society of the United States (MD);
Humane Society of the United States (MT);
Humane Society of the United States (PA);
Humane Society of the United States (VT);
Humane Society of=2
0the United States California Branch Inc.
(CA);
Humane Society of the United States New Jersey Branch Inc.
(NJ);
Humane Society of the United States Wildlife Land Trust (DC);
Humane Society of the United States Wildlife Land Trust (KS);
Humane Society of the United States Wildlife Land Trust (OK);
Humane Society of the United States Utah State Branch (UT);
Humane Society University (DC);
Institute for the Study of Animal Problems (DC);
Interfaith Council for the Protection of Animals and Nature
(GA);
International Society for the Protection of Animals (UK);
International Wilderness Leadership Wild Foundation Inc. [d/b/a
The WILD Foundation] (CA);
Kindness Club International Inc. (DC);
Meadowcreek Project Inc. (AR);
Meadowcreek Inc. (AR);
National Association for Humane and Environmental Education
(DC);
National Humane Education Center (VA);
Species Survival Network (MI);
Valerie Sheppard Humane Society University (DC);
Wildlife Rehabilitation Training Center (MA);
World Federation for the Protection of Animals Inc. (DC);
World Society for the Protection of Animals (DC);
World Society for the Protection of Animals (IA);
World Society for the Protection of Animals (ND);
World Society for the Protection of Animals (VT);
World Society for the Protection of Animals - Canada;
World Society for the Protection of Animals - Deutschland;
World Society for the Protection of Animals International (UK);
World Society for the Protection of Animals UK (UK); and
Worldwide Network Inc. (DC).
For
-profit affiliates:
The Humane Catalog (VA);
Humane Equity Fund [defunct] (DC);
Humane Society Press (DC);
Humane Society of the United States Connecticut Branch Inc.
(CT);
Humane Society of the United States Virginia Branch Inc. (VA);
World Society for the Protection of Animals (MA);
World Society for the Protection of Animals - Australia;
World Society for the Protection of Animals Executor Services
(UK);
World Society for the Protection of Animals Trading Company
(UK).

This list may not be completely updated, but was at time of
initial printing by consumerfreedom.com–however after the huge
merger of many more extremist groups with HSUS, they now own millions of acres of land, and probably can BUY whatever POLITICIAN they can pay.
HSUS is responsible for helping Louisville KY come up with the
draconian pet laws now the subject of a federal lawsuit (2008),
in which the COURT denied the amicus briefs of HSUS TWICE (in
other words, the Court refused to allow it to be filed)
One reason is because, HSUS used one of the same attorneys
which was formerly representing one of the parties—that is
considered a conflict of interest!! Is that ethical???
HSUS spent lots of $$attorney fees to keep trying to file it,again and again!

HSUS is going around the country offering $5,000 for info
leading to conviction of “dogfighters” and has purposely
helped/engaged in orchestrated raids of large and medium
kennels of dogs, killing ALL the dogs upon seizure, even when the court verdicts led to acquittal of the owners. HSUS has bragged about taking down dog people and made a big deal of it,yet after 3-4 years, the accused are acquitted quickly but their dogs were killed right after the raids. This is becoming a pattern for the HSUS, which is NOT a legal enforcement team. Thought HSUS was about “saving” animals? Think again.

HSUS solicited donations for the Vick dogs when they did not HAVE custody of such dogs–but implied that they did!! In fact HSUS wrote letters advocating the dogs should be killed.Soliciting donations for dogs one doesn’t have amounts to fabrication. Lying.

HSUS purposely engages itself with local humane society groups so that HSUS can be involved in KENNEL RAIDS of small dogs,with the intent being that all such dogs will be seized and taken. HSUS often uses Best Friends, ASPCA, Last Chance for Animals and the like, to help out. No charges of abuse or gross neglect need be filed, in fact in one case, it was set up to seize the animals by saying there was an “environmental”violation of putting dog urine in the river. HSUS then broadcasts such RAIDS across the United States, and then helps groups sell the dogs the week following the RAID.

HSUS purposely has “merged” with other large AR groups (Doris
Day, etc) so they can take over the advocacy of AR issues in all areas (legislate, advocate,lawsuits) and WP admitted, they intend to push hard in several areas, including legislation and gaining donations. Just looking at the huge list of corporations owned by HSUS, do you not see the potential for harm? Do we need to become victims first,like in the mortgage business? Do we need to lose our rights before fighting this cancer?

See http://tinyurl.com/7dkh52 or
http://www.gerryspence.wordpress.com

Please forward to others who will do the same! The truth about
PETA has been out for awhile, but HSUS credibilty needs to be hit with the sledgehammer. And it’s now Hammertime! AB1634 was defeated in CA with massive numbers of opposition. We need to do the same, only MORE–against HSUS. Our work lies before
us. Now we need to do it now!

S. R. White

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

hey skyblue, do you lack comprehension skills also, no one is supporting HSUS on here, we are jsut against fighting dogs.

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I'm just going to bow out of this one..... I apparently just don't have the comprehension skills to compete in this debate. I made the huge jump of having my ideas called "chicken chit" to being called a name.... my mistake.

And it may be my low comprehension but another reason I'll bow out is that it's tough to have a converstation or honest debate with anyone that won't address your ideas.... instead they just label them "chicken chit" (I'm not sure what a chicken chit idea is) or say you have low comprehension.... but of course no name calling, LOL. I logically explained why I don't think we have the right to tell people how to treat animals... nobody responds to that.... just name calling!


I'm not saying you have to support dog fighting... I don't. But I don't support telling other people what to do. It's tempting for me to tell someone that they shouldn't fight dogs... but that would be because to me it's wrong. If I do that then why can't someone else tell me coon hunting is wrong because to them it's wrong?

Ask yourself this, if I have the right to tell one person dog fighting is wrong- why can't HSUS have the right to tell me coon hunting is wrong? How are you trying to argue chicken fighting is ok, but dog fighting is not?

The problem is who gets to decide what's right and wrong? I say the individual has the freedom to decide what's right and wrong for themselves unless it infringes on the rights of someone else. Tell me how you can argue with that last sentence????

Anyway, I don't argue with people that resort to name calling at the beginning of a discussion.... and yes telling someone their ideas are chicken chit, they are of low intelligence, need to get a backbone and saying they have low comprehension is name calling... everyone can see that and those comments have absolutely nothing to do with the conversation.......maybe those were really intelligent things to say and my comprehension is just that low????

dk

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Pinckneyville, IL
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rance56,
Maybe I lack comprehension skills too, but I'm with those guys you are argung against.

Maybe you need to go back and reread their posts. (It seems like you might need to read it more than once to comprehend it yourself.) They never said they were for dog fighting...they said they were against HSUS and other organizations like them, which is what I hear you saying too. But they are also saying that you gotta be careful, because the more footing we give these organizations on one issue, the farther they will push into the next issue. HSUS and PETA and those types of organizations are against us being able to hunt or even have dogs and if they are allowed an inch, they'll take a mile. So while we are not promoting dog or rooster fights, we are promoting doing everything we can to shut these types of organizations down. And remember, in the words of John Wick, "Dogs is dogs." They got no soul and shouldn't be treated withthe same respect as humans. So let's put our energy into stopping injustices toward people and not focus so much on whether dogs are being mistreated or not.

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Hunting is one of those pleasures that you won't understand if you have to have it explained, which is good because folks who enjoy it can't fully explain why. -Ron Spomer

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

no plottchaser, i understand what they are saying loud and clear. they are saying turn a blind eye to dog fighting. they are saying you should be able to do whatever you want to do to your dog. wether its fight it, starve it, burn it, as long as it doesnt encroach upon someone else. all because they think its going to help protect our right to hunt. get the heck out of here with that BS. they are saying we should stand united with these people. yea, Mike Vick is just the type of people i want to be associated with.

WHAT PART OF ITS AGAINST FEDERAL LAW TO FIGHT DOGS, THAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?

i can understand standing with those that want to protect their rights to own black rifles and if we dont, our guns might be next. But the notion of not demonizing dog fighting because it might lead to us losing our right to hunt is ridiculous. and yes i think its chicken chit to be against something but scared to speak up becuase you are afraid you might be the next target. i imagine you were one of those that just stood by why the bully picked on the wekaer ones becuase you were scared you would be next if you said something, huh? the vast majority of this country, and i dont mean the tree huggers, are against dog fighting and if you are a true houndsman, i think you should be too and not afraid to say so. cull as neccesary, but treat dogs humanely.

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Listen rance, I think we are on the same team. We both love the outdoors, animals, dogs, hunting, etc. As far as the bully thing, ask my dad how many times he had to come argue with the principal about me fighting some bully cause I couldn't stand seeing someone get picked on. It happened all the time.

But what you're talking about is joining forces with someone who is against what we do with our dogs (HSUS, PETA, etc) to speak out against dog fighting. Now hear me out, I hate people who abuse animals in any way, but we have to be careful to speak out against it in a way that doesn't fuel the fires of the animal rights freaks, who would rather see an innocent human fetus killed than an animal used for a human's enjoyment. I'm just saying I think we have our priorities screwed up in this country.

A couple years ago there were some people in my area who got into trouble for having animals that lived in bad conditions. 40 some dogs that were neglected living in a house full of 4 inches of dog crap, etc. The saddest part about this is that there were 3 little kids living in that house and their principal (who I know personally) had contected DCFS many times about this family and she was told they were understaffed and nothing could be done. Only after HSUS found out about it were the people in trouble and the children and animals rescued from the home. The news stations told the story and kept focusing on the animal, all the while I was wondering about the welfare of the kids.

All I'm saying is if we would get our heads out of our butts we would start to realize that there are a lot more important things than dog fighting that we need to be standing up against.

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Keep 'em treed,
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Hunting is one of those pleasures that you won't understand if you have to have it explained, which is good because folks who enjoy it can't fully explain why. -Ron Spomer

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Location: Jacksonville FL
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Plottchaser, maybe im giving the wrong impression. im not saying we should be actively out there trying to persicute those that fights dogs or should be supporting HSUS, im just saying if asked, we shouldnt be afraid to speak against. the little that i know that goes on in the fighting and training of these dogs, tells me the vast majority of these folks are scumbags and people you woudlnt want in your community or around your family. Here we are on the message board of most likely the largest hound organization and we got folks stating we need to try not to "demonize" dog fighting or speak against. is that really the impression we as houndsmen need to be giving, that we are ok with fighting dogs? do you think that really will help us in the long road?

imo, 3 things are what is going to lead to no hunting with dogs and HSUS is not one of those 3, niether is demonizing dog fighting. 1. is keep electing folks like obama into the white house, especially when the likes of nancy pelosi and harry ried are running things. 2-loss of places to hunt do to developments-thats the one good thing that has come out of this recession, the slowdown of housing. and 3. our fellow deer and turkey hunters-they hate hunting with hounds way more than any HSUS member, and they are the ones that report specific issues when it comes to hunting with dogs.

take care, rance

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really hard to believe we are on a mesage board for hunting dogs and some think fighting dogs is no big deal. i breed my hounds, raise and train them from puppies, then finish them into coonhounds. 90% of the time im hunting, its me, one on one with one of my hounds. ive come to appreciate what dogs do for me in the woods and the enjoyment it gives me, enough where i dont think they should be treated inhumanely.

the vast majority of average americans are ok with hunting, even if they dont do it themselves, the vast majority of the average american is totally against fighting dogs.
please name one group other than those that actually fight the dogs, where you could openly talk about raising and training fighting dogs without offending most everyone there.

at the very least you have some issues if you enjoy fighting dogs, especially the training and living conditions these dogs are put through. an again ill say, the i bet the vast majority of those that raise and fight dogs are scumbags or thugs who are not very productive citizens, and again at the very least, federal law breakers.

so please mr. smith, if fighting dogs aint so bad, and the ones that do it are such upstanding citizens, please name them here. thats right, you wont do it because they dont want it to be known, and usually when you dont want something known its because it wrong or you are not proud of it.

again, i dotn support HSUS by any means, but niether do i want to be associated with those that fight dogs, just because i own hounds.

and to answer you question about wahts the difference between fighting dogs to the death and culling them, and im really sorry i have to answer such a simple question. very simply one is done in a very brutal manner while the other is done humanely. one is the desired result, the other is the last option.

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