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Does anyone here have experience doing a split litter and DNA'ing the pups?
There are few situations where this might be a handy tool like if a dog is getting up and years and you think you can only get one more breeding out of them or if you want to A.I. breed to one dog but want to be sure to get a pup out of your female so you could natural breed to something else during the same heat cycle?
Just curious. I know very little about DNA'ing a litter.

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Registered: Sep 2006
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Sounds tricky to me... could be a recipe for disaster!

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I know. I thought the same thing. Could be a great tool if it is flaw proof.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
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Call Ferrari. He has done it several times.


Last I heard he had Queen AIed to ST Nick and live covered to .............................something Stienhouser has.


All in all its a pretty simple deal. One sire has to be DNA profiled, and you check the pups to him. Any that come back negitive belong to the other sire.


I would do it in a minute if I had semen from a dog I wanted to use. Especialy if it was to a female I didnt want to loose a litter on. Supposed to get a better conception rate over just AIing.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: West Alexandria, OH
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I've done 2 Dual Sired Litters. It's pretty simple. You just have to DNA-P the mom & both sires you are using. UKC will send you a Dual Sire Application. Once the puppies are born, you DNA-P them and send in the Ap and just sit back & wait for the DNA results to show who sired which puppies.

You just have to make sure that once you DNA-P the puppies that you keep them collared so you can tell them apart. I use color coded collars that I can write on with marker and I've never had a problem.

Both times I attempted a dual sired litter- I got two seperate litters of pups-- some were out of mama & sire #1, and some by mama & sire #2.

Some folks have a misconception that if you dual sire- the pups can somehow be out of both sires---- absolutely can NOT happen. It's the same as people- there is only 1 dad and 1 mom regardless of how many men mom might've been with.

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Another question, let's say you breed the female to dual sires the same day or within a day of each other, does it seem to effect the number of pups you get from each sire? Or does the sire with better swimmers just win out and produce more pups? I'm sure timing as a lot to do with it. I'm sure it is possible that you may get any number of pups from 1 sire (like 1,2, or 0) and then the majority of the litter from the other sire.

Any idea on the cost of doing something like this?

I have no intentions of doing this anytime soon. It just something I've often wondered about.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

We have a breeder in this area with 2 dual-sired litters due ths month. It's a good idea when you have an older gyp or you want pups from a gyp by 2 different sires & you just want to raise one litter. The most important responsibility of a dual-sired litter is to correctly identify and mark the pups. Katina described it all very well.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Brogy...it's been my experience that dual-sired litters are 50/50. Half the time they are intentional and half the time they are accidental. The intentional breedings usually occur when someone wants to breed a female to an older male, but they are not quite sure that the female will take using this male (usually because of the age of the male)...so theywill then breed to an offspring of the older male to be sure they get a litter from the female out of the intended male's bloodline. Other times, accidents do happen where two males get to a female, unintentionally. Then the dual-sired litter is done to determine, not necessarily who is the correct sire, but who is the actual sire.

The fee for processing a dual-sired litter is $50. In this process we actually register the litter twice, once to each male. Each pup is permanently registered so that DNA can be processed. When the correct sire(s) are determined, the registration for the pups are completed. The pups will either belong to one or the other litter. The pups that do not apply to the respective litter will be removed and only the pups that qualify to that particular sire will remain as part of the litter.

Skyblu is correct when she says the cost of the whole dual-sired litter process comes from having to do the DNA Profiles. The requirements are that you will need to profile both possible sires, the dam and each pup in the litter. If you have a 10 pup litter...whoa!!! The cost per DNA is $49...unfortunately, there is not a quantity discount.

In my opinion, Katina Childers may possibly be one of the best people to talk to about mating a successful dual-sired litter. As she said, she has had two successful sets of breedings.

If you have any other questions, please let me know. I'll be glad to help any way that I can.

Cindy Stickley
Special Projects Manager
UNITED KENNEL CLUB, INC.

Last edited by Cindy Stickley on 06-05-2007 at 04:01 PM

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Thanks for all the info! Sounds like a great tool for breeders in the present and more so into the future.
The cost is a little steep for the average joe trying to raise a quality litter but hopefully has more folks begin using DNA the cost may come down a bit.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Have my first dual sired litter on the way now.

I'll let you know how it works out!

I will be tattooing each of the pups for later identification instead of relying on collars.

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Joe,
I was looking over your site awhile back and saw that you planned to breed Julie to multiple sires. I can see why in your situation this is valuable approach. That's what got my gears turning.
Is this upcoming litter off of Julie or are you making a test run on another female? Best of luck with your upcoming litter(s).

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This is an old post I made from awhile back. Due to recent circumstances I'm considering this.
I'd like to know more about this.
I tried calling UKC, they are closed for a meeting this afternoon.
I'd like to hear from UKC on the costs and requirements of a Dual Sired litter as well as from breeder's who have experience with this.
Thanks

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Marc,

You can download the Dual Sire litter application here:

http://www.ukcdogs.com/res/pdf/DualSiredLitterApp.pdf

I was wrong earlier, there is indeed a $50.00 fee, but that covers registering all the pups to both sires. In effect, you have two litters, born the same day...and the parentage is yet to be proven.

Of course you need to have both sires, and the dam DNA profiled. If they are not profiled with UKC, but profiled in another registry, you have to have them updated with UKC DNA.

You make the cross, and when the pups are born, you DNA swab the pups. You send in the $49.00 for each pups DNA profile. At the end of the process you get back the appropriate puppy papers, with the appropriate sires, and the pups are DNA VIP proven.

If both sires are performance sires, you have to nominate both litters, so there is also some added expense...if only one sire is paid up, you would only need to nominate one of the litters.

In my case, the female only had two pups...which made for a very expensive proposition. Each pup was from a different sire, so I indeed did have to pay the nomination fee for each pup....which added to the expense.

I think it's a valuable tool when used in a breeding program. It will certainly enable you to evaluate the reproductive ability of all three of the parents.....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 999

One thing that wasn't mentioned in any of the above posts is that sometimes you may have to repeat and resubmit DNA swabs more than once on some pups. It can add substantially to the time it takes to find out who the sire is and get the puppy papers.
We had 2 pups that were almost 5 months old before we finally knew who the sire was.

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It's intriquing to say the least. 90% of the time I wouldn't even bother considering this but with the opportunity to breed to two nice young males, both close to home without paying a stud fee makes this a possibility.
Last year we bred this female she had some complications. Honestly, I had no interest in whelping her again but I'd like to see her get a couple more litters on the ground. She is a 7 year old. This might be a way to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Especially if both stud owners are willing to help move pups (hint, hint).

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
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Brogy,

I had all the pups that I took to Autumn Oaks sold by Friday evening last year....HINT HINT

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this is one of the best things i think ive heard of... joe have you had any feedback on the pups yet?

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