Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3316

Would you pay to breed your dog to if the male is unproven, with a NITCH or GRNITECH title &/or CH or GRCH title. With good bloodlines?

0 - $100

$200 - $300

over $300

Other, please explain.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hogansville, GA
Posts: 797

that are not proven breed for around $100 or either a puppy. You can breed to a SS Sire that is a proven reproducer for $200 or so.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

The percentages are to low even with a proven stud dog to breed to a dog that hasn't proved himself any at all $ 000.00 is what I would pay. What a low percentage all breeds produce if you are looking at the records kept by UKC. On the other hand I might breed to a dog that has never entered a hunt that is in my part of the country if he has proven himself as a stud dog worthy of breeding to.I hear of all puppies in a litter making coon dogs.....but then never hear or see of these dogs. Its a gamble on whatever you breed to, but breeding to a proven stud is the best road to take. Even at the better stud dog the percentage is low, and very few make it. WE NEED MORE CULLING.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

I am in a unique position. There are about a half a dozen top English studs I can breed to including Little Bam. I have pups coming off of Dual Grand Champion Clemons' Treeing Bam Bam II and Grand Nite Champion "The Kid" when I could have bred either female to Little Bam in my back yard. The price of the stud fees on both dogs is a private matter but I am very confident I will get the same quality of pups I will get out of Little Bam as one is a full brother to Little Bam and the other's sire is a littermate to Little Bam's sire. I could have bred either female to Dual Grand Champion Totally Alsome but one is a daughter of his and there is another Grand Nite Champion brother to Little Bam I could have bred to and a young Champion Nite Champion male that carries the same bloodlines also. My point is that while the advertised fees are various prices, I will get the same quality of pups out of either dog. The fees on Little Bam have went up to $300.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: OHIO
Posts: 962

i would think most owners of young unproven studs would be happy to breed for a pup.i would not pay much to breed my nice female to an unproven one. the value of going to a reputable breeder and paying for that proven sire is in the fact that he has already invested his time and resources validating his stud.------------------also the thing that is often overlooked is evaluating your females reproducing qualities.knowing the studs reproduction history is very helpful when assessing her value as a brood female.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Radford, Virginia
Posts: 2748

I guess I am in between on this issue, if no one breeds to an unproven stud, how will anyone ever know if he will reproduce? I mean, most people say, "Only the dogs that are proven should be bred." Well, what determines if they are proven?, winning in the hunts? Breeding to a couple of sorry females and training a some pups to run and tree? If a person has a male and he wants to breed his male, but no one will breed a good bred female to him, what do you do? If you do breed to some females that aren't proven or just average hounds, you get criticized for not breeding ethically. To hear some tell it, we might as well let the breeds become extinct! To hear others, you might as well breed dogs no matter what they can do in the woods. So, in conclusion, lets just conduct ourselves professionally and ethically and make crosses that we have done the appropriate research on the dogs in the pedigree and charge a reasonable price for the stud fee. I have a male right now that doesn't have the best pedigree in the world and we have bred him once and got three puppies, two of the puppies went to florida and we kept one. she is now 6 months old. I worked her on a caged coon this morning and she is showing incredible potential. I have showed her 3 times and have 2 best of shows. She has been in the woods 2 times and is staying out with the dogs 20 minutes per drop. The mother of the dog is a good track dog but a little weak on the tree. Anyway, I believe in my males ability to reproduce so far. thanks , pastor mike

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
Posts: 10272

If it's an "unproven" stud, I'd rather have a pup. That way I've not wasted my money. I know, it takes two to make a good dog.

We have had several people that have been hunting with Hank that want to breed to him. He's not proven at all. Yes, he does good in the woods, but who's to say he'll reproduce. We bred him and Molly to see what happens with that bloodline. If it does good, then we'll get in touch with the people that have been wanting to breed to him and tell them "Look, this is what the pups are doing. Dont know what will happen with your dogs bloodline, but we'll see"

I'd just rather have a pup, that way I could show what the pups out of different bloodlines will do.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 119

If some one is studding an "unproven stud" and is afraid to breed for free or a pup, the owner of the stud isn't real sure about what his dog will reproduce. If I had to pay for it I would go to a proven dog. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: mobile,Al
Posts: 14

If I hunted with the hound and he was a very good hound I wouldnt have a problem paying a small stud fee.
AFTER all when you breed hounds your just rolling the dice anyways.. I think if both hounds are for real coonhounds it does increase your chances for the pups to be the same.
I would much rather have a pup out of 2 good hounds that are unknown than from a brood gyp that has never treed a coon bred to a well known stud dog just so they can sell the pups !!.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SC
Posts: 2046

If you want to sell all your pups,you had better breed to a proven stud,or else you will end up giving some of the pups away or raising them.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Advance, MO
Posts: 77

This is really kind of a tough question to me, because there are several factors to consider. If I know the dog, and know the dogs in his pedigree, and those hounds all have/had the qualities I'm looking for then I'd pay a normal stud fee.

We can't expect people to take pups for stud fees all of the time. I wouldn't take a pup on a stud fee unless I knew the female, and liked her breeding/ability.

There is really just one way for a stud dog to have huge impacts on a breed. That way is get bred early, and get bred often for a long time. If you look at all the dogs that have a lot of pups on the ground (over 1000). These hounds were bred a lot early in their life. I think it takes getting a lot of pups on the ground early, then letting those pups speak for the stud dog is the formula to a stud dog really catching on. Somebody has to be willing to go out and look for the next best stud dog. This is why a lot of dogs that really can reproduce never get bred much.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

There are alot of studs that get bred to alot where it is all advertising. Someone with a coon dog that few would breed to if they hunted with him, get alot of females because someone is spending $1000 a month advertising the dog. I could mention a few but that would sure get a few more folks mad at me than there is already.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 568

Should someone even ask for money if the dog isn't "proven".

Lotto tickets only cost a couple bucks at the most Chances are similar only you can tweek your numbers with the puppy.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Advance, MO
Posts: 77

Good point Redtick. There are a lot of folks out there that will only tell what is good in their dog, and I honestly believe that those things are all they can see in many cases. Sometimes I wish I could find a pair of those rose colored glasses for when I'm hunting mine.

Of coarse if you can't recognize what your hounds weaknesses are you can never strengthen them in your breeding program. By the same token if you don't know the weaknesses of the stud then you can't make a good decision of whether or not he is the dog for you.

Maybe you oughta try to hunt with that dog and/or several of his offspring before you breed to him. I'd do both if possible. However, I still stick to what I said about searching out great stud dogs before everyone else knows about them. If you don't they may never get found, or get found when it is too late.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: greensburg,ky.
Posts: 3364

I BELIEVE THAT IF A PERSON PROMOTES HIS DOG AND HE COMPLETES HIS DEGREE OF NT.CH. OR GR.NT.CH. BY THIS TIME HE SHOULD HAVE BREED HIM TO A FEMALE AND HAS SHOWN HE HE CAN REPRODUCE PUPS THAT CAN HUNT ,TRAIL AND TREE ,AFTER THIS HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A STUD FEE FOR NOT ONLY COMPLETING HIS DEGREE BUT BEING ABLE TO REPRODUCE,IF HE COMPLETES GR.NT. IT SHOULD BE WORTH SOMETHING FOR PUTTING UP WITH SOME OF THE HUNTS HE IS IN AND SPENDING ALL THAT MONEY TO PROMOTE HIM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 36

I'm curious, If you should'nt have to pay nothing for breeding to a unproven dog what do you do with a female that had her first litter, give the pups away. Maybe you should'nt have to pay a 200 or 300 dollar stud fee but if he is sure enough a coon dog and has proven himself in the hunts it should be worth at least 100 dollars dont you think.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

i like paying a stud fee and prefer to do so. reason being..i want to keep my own pick of the litter. whether a stud dog is proven or not...i feel owner has a right to be paid for some of the effort he has put into his stud dog. and if someone has doubts on a male hound's capabilities of reproducing, then maybe it would be well to reconsider another. each litter shouldn't have to be a "guessing game"... or a "hit n miss" deal...

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