Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

I hear all this talk about den trees. I know there has to be plenty of den trees in these woods i hunt. but the only den trees i have seen this year. are when im hunting with just a sertain cupple dogs other dogs i dont hardly ever see den trees. is it possible that there a lot of hounds taking tracks backwards. or is it more of an excuse for the tree being empty. i ask this question becuse it allways seems to be the same dogs. hitting these den trees.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Generally I dont look at many den trees either.

Your right, some dogs have a tendancy to end up on more than their share.

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 566

I see den trees a lot when I hunt just after dark...I figured the coon was still near its den and it was just easy to run back to it. Interesting to see what others think on this one. When I say den tree, I'm talking the huge oaks and poplars that the dog can just about climb in the hole at the bottom of the tree and see 50 ft up.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

I could under stand a few like that if there quick. but not some old boogered out track. my dog ends up split about75% of the time in these runs.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 263

Well area's that have been logged mostly what is left are den trees so here we tree a lot of den trees and look at the coon on the outside almost as much as the coon being assumed on the inside. Just the other night i treed up a den and it had a hole in the bottom my whole head could fit in to look up but the tree was bent and couldnt see the end of the hollow. The dog ran it red hot for nearly an hour and a half and wound up there. Then the 2nd turn she struck a much colder track and ran 10 mins ended up in a den as well but the coon was on the outside. Personally I imagine some dogs backtrack to dens but, anytime you have a den and cant see up in it you have to give it to the dog. My dog has missed a few times but, she is pretty darn accurate...not to mention when she was treeing she had her head stuck right in the hole of the tree i thought she was in the ground at first but then i put the tracker on her and the tree switch was going off. i guarantee if you hunt here 2 nights you will tree more than 1 den tree. These mountain coon are very smart and they know how to keep from getting killed. They have had dogs after them plenty of times and they know how to get away.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

i think there is some dogs that are a tad bit lazy and just waltz around the woods checking every tree it comes close to for coon scent..instead of throwing there head in the air and actually trying to find one on the outside.. then there are the ones that just don't know which way is the right way on a track..

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan Dogs
i think there is some dogs that are a tad bit lazy and just waltz around the woods checking every tree it comes close to for coon scent..instead of throwing there head in the air and actually trying to find one on the outside.. then there are the ones that just don't know which way is the right way on a track..

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I think your right.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 263

Oh yeah to add to that I am about totally sure it depends on hunting pressure as well and coon population. If i go north where there are a lot of coon i rarely tree in a den. but here there are some old smart coon. The long race i was talking about hit 3 ridges and ended up almost about where the race started. My dog uses a lot of mouth on a hot hot track she definately had that coon on the move. But never the less if there is a hole a coon can get in in the tree you have to give your dog credit for it. Im sure a lot of hunters make up some good ones too lol at least a lot do around here. I dont make no excuses for a dog...if its not a den or just has a little bird hole in the side that a coon cant get in...i wont call that a den thats a miss but if its got a hole i can stick my head in or big enough for a coon to get in I give my dog credit for it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by MillsEnglish
i wont call that a den thats a miss but if its got a hole i can stick my head in or big enough for a coon to get in I give my dog credit for it.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

i've got several hunting spots where if the dogs don't get enuff heat on a coon you will look at more dens than you would like to see in a night.. i can usually tell by the track if it was pushed to a den tree or if it is a dog that is just gambling..i have won a few hunts where a few dogs worked the track the wrong way and ended on a den tree when mine went the right way and had a coon..i have heard all kinds of excuses!!!lol but don't get me wrong, i'm sure my dogs have screwed up a few times too..

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Last edited by Dan Dogs on 11-15-2008 at 04:45 PM

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

like I said there are plenty of dens every where you go. it just seems to me that these jumbo coons in these woods must be much dumber around here. dont get me rong we have tappers and balers. its just that they dont make it to dens.maybe these coons up here just like my dogs. and just climb up trees that dont have big holes they can climb into.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 263

Well that might be so but, I have looked up several and looked at the coon and looked up several i couldnt see to the top of the hollow and have looked in several the coon was on the outside of it. I assure you in your neck of the woods there are a lot more coon. I have hunted in indiana and up north and its totally different than here. Anyone that hunts the mountains in kentucky will tell you that when you hit a coon here some of them run like deer. Most my area has been logged so i tree a lot of den trees but I look at a lot of coon in the tops of them also. Ive been to owen county kentucky several times and have never treed a den up there. I know they are there but the hunting is just different totally. In fact of the last 8 trees I have made 6 have been dens all ran in hot looked at 6 coon one empty and one big den that the dog was running the coon like a deer.

If a dog just boo hoos to a den i could see that but a red hot track to a den naw...here you had a great night if you look at 1-2 coons in a whole night hunt. rough...rock cliffs, logging, den trees, mountains...and coon know how to use everything to their advantage especially the older ones.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

I dont know if i could handle that kind of hunting. up here we dont have mountains. its just that i dont see many dens. and that is probable just good luck. we do have plenty of coons.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 263

Well my assumption is that no one spot gets over pressured since the coon population is so great there. It is a lot different. I like going north to hunt it makes for a easy hunt even the roughest night compared to here. I like training my young dog here cause if they can get it done here they can get it done anywhere.

Ive seen some big money dogs come out of indiana that couldnt get it done here. Dogs that you couldnt beat up in indiana I had a beagle when i moved here from indiana i killed my limit in indiana with him almost every time i took him. When we got down here the hunting is so different he never was the dog he was in indiana. now not saying that some could make it here cause im sure there are. but its rough every coon you tree you will earn it lol

I got one pic ill try to post later of my dogs treeing and I had to prop my foot up on the tree just to keep from rolling down it. If I wasnt training a young dog i wouldnt hunt this rough crap for it...haha But seriously the dens are only so bad here cause almost everywhere has been logged. Only thing they have left standing for the most part is den beech and occasionally an oak escapes.

I had some feeders for deer out where i used to live near here and i decided id drop the dogs on the feeder one night and it had been logged. Dog struck right at the feeder and up the mountain it went...treed up a HUGE oak biggest ive ever seen you could seriously almost drive a car through it. My 28v light struggled to shine into the tops of it. Dont know how the tree made it past the logger unless they just didnt have a way to get it out.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

I will tell you what i have seen a few of these southern dogs up in these woods and they coudnt do much up here. we all have some good grounds and some tough stuff. I cant believe that you think the hunting is that easy up here. no we are lucky that we dont have snakes and gators. but its not all cake and ice cream up here . winter lasts almost 8 months. snow up to your a**. most days below zero not to mention are warm winter nites. come on up and give it a try.coon season opened a month ago. and they have ben dened up for almost two weeks know. there is no agriculture to hunt. all big forest if you got one of them dogs that dont want to check in. you will realy enjoy your self up here.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

know i know that just a cupple hours south the coons are faerly thick. and a few guys have brought there best up here. and they cant axplain the bad nights there dogs have. sow come on up lets give it a whirl. if nothing else i can cut my s*** eaters loose. and will put them up for you.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: tioga co.pa
Posts: 1728

Many yrs ago Redbone Ralph accused my blueticks of backing it to a den. Pissed me off went home and got the Stihl... poved him wrong..... no double wrong as there were 2 coon in the den....

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I have heard the argument before that dogs that tree a lot of den trees are backing into them....and I'm sure that there are some cases where this might be true.

Here is what I know about my dogs. On nights when there is a full moon, and the coon simply are not moving...I tree on a lot of den trees. Working bad old tracks at 2:00 AM....I look at a lot of den trees.

I have a female here that will tree every coon she comes across, but if she cant find a working track....she'll lock up on a den tree. She trees a whole lot of layup coon as well....so she's treeing on wind scent, and not reliant upon a track to tree....she's not "lazy" either....she'll walk you to DEATH......

Some dogs are willing to wander around in the dark and not get treed when they can't get a track, some are lousy track dogs...bark around for a while, then lie about a coon being in the tree when they can no longer move the track, other dogs have the nose to gut out a track that is several hours old, even if the coon went "home" for the night.....

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 263

Well to reply to nate on wisconsin snow...I imagine that changes things a lot. We don't get much snow usually so I couldn't tell you much about my dog on snow. Usually when the snow flies you wont catch me out in it...dog might be up for it but im not. Im just saying walk wise flat country on its worst night is an easy hunt compared to here. Now snow...up to your butt...no thanks you keep that haha Ive walked in some big snows and that crap will wear you out. Maybe sometime I will have my dog up that far north and give it a try.

Keep in mind here the world stops turning with 3 inches of snow..nobody hits the roads unless they got a 4 wheel drive and have to go.

I did live in indiana 18 years though and I do know how bitter cold it can get there so wisconsin is not much of a turn on lol seems ive became spoiled by my 30-40 degree nights in kentucky in the winter for the most part. sometimes 20's rarely below that for a long term. But on the same token I am sure the coon here react in the teens like they would there at 0 can be some rough hunting in the 20's. Was 49 here the other night....had a good hunt for around here could have probably stuck a 3rd on the wood but, with deer season open i decided to quit while i was ahead....during rifle season you dont want a dog running around the woods here a lot of people shoot at anything that moves.

But I am sure you have some rough hunting up there I dont doubt that. Everywhere is rough in some way or another. Swamps, thickets, mountains or whatever. I hope i never have to wade a swamp up to my neck to get a dog ever again. Water was nearly above the dogs head she found some drift wood to stand on lodged in the huge sycamore out in the middle of the swamp. Coon was there and was left sitting luckily it was a summer hunt.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2713

I agree with MillsEnglish on this one. I hunt here in eastern KY and make dens fairly often. On the other hand I hunted two nights in Michigan last fall, treed twenty six coon and only made one den and that was a red hot race and the coon was actually seen by looking up the tree. One big difference in hunting here is that most of the oak timber has been cut and a lot of whats left is Beech trees and anyone that knows anything knows that about 75% if not more of Beech trees are hollow and make great places for coon to run in and hide. Even if its not the den they are using they will still go on the inside of these trees most time if you happen to tree in them. Also the hills around here make it a little harder for dogs to track so the coons have a little more time to make it to the dens as opposed to the flat country where dogs can get in on the coons quick and put em up.

He was also right when he said it takes a better dog to tree coon consistenly down here than up north. My uncle brought a good dog down here last summer and it never got a strike or tree on my dog. When we hunted with him up north the same dog would tree a coon with in five to ten minutes of being cut loose each time we cut him loose.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

I guess I should of taken into consideration that down south your timber is not like ares. all i know is if you lived up here. i dought you would find your self at that many dens. And if you did you might consider culling. I know I would. just no reason for it in this part of the country.

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Registered: Oct 2008
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Posts: 263

I hunted some of the best lookin country the other night a person could ask for big deep hollers 5 of them turned in all 5 and never got a bark. Dog hunted the best ever was just nothing in there. Brought her back out and reluctantly went where i knew it had been logged hard and got up with 2 right away. With no water nearby other than puddles. They have some of the strangest habits around here. Hollers like those up north of here you cant help but tree a coon. The next night im go in that same place im liklely to tree 2 or 3. The coon seem to roam around here where i treed the 2 the other night was straight across the hill from the beautiful country i started at. Long way driving but walking straight over a mountain its not far at all. The same coon could easily be in the nice place next time.

also up my road at the end there is big country that ties all together with the other 2 places I treed coon in there all last year didnt put very many out at all but they have literally left cant tree a coon in there for nothing this year.

There are also 4-5 other close spots all that ties into its just a matter of getting in the spots the coon are on any given night you can bout flip a coin on it cause its a 50-50 chance your right. At the same time a place i couldnt tree a coon last year I can generally have a good hunt there most nights. I had feeders that would sit there untouched for a month at a time. Year before that you couldnt count the coon i treed in the same spot. The only thing consistant here is the hunters are gonna be there but are the coon?

A den is a coons escape as much as its used as a home....around here anyway.

Way back when deer didnt look in trees for people but you can bet they do now here...all animals wise up to hunters in some way...how its passed on to other generations is a question I would love to hear answered. Wiley old bucks didnt get that big rack simply by eating good minerals...their also very smart...one would have to think coon would get smarter the more dogs they have had after them.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1100

I recently hunted 6 nights in Wisconsin, saw 44 coon and only made 1 den tree. The trees up there are much smaller than the trees around here and we were obviously hunting areas that had not been pressured. Brought the same dog back home to this area and made den tree after den tree, so I don't think it is the dog, just the timber and hunting pressure JMO.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 263

I agree with this up north. In owenton you can generally tree 5-6 coon a night and rarely in a den. Its about 2 1/2 hours north of here. Its also nice walking so you can get to your dog faster. But since its 2 1/2 hours you lose a little hunt time cause if you hunt all night your so tired driving in and all your buddies are fast asleep and all you wanna do is reach over and jack up the AC in 25 degree weather so they will wake up and get off your shoulder sleeping. I say 5-6 in the shortest days of the year probably more in the winter. But yes I agree if I treed as many dens north as I did here I would for sure be lookin for another dog. By the way I am in barbourville ky I keep talking "here" but nobody knows where "here" is lol

quote:

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Originally posted by nate m
I guess I should of taken into consideration that down south your timber is not like ares. all i know is if you lived up here. i dought you would find your self at that many dens. And if you did you might consider culling. I know I would. just no reason for it in this part of the country.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

wow 44 must have ben fun only one den. I would say it must be the dog because there hitting dens one out of three.

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