Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

Is there any circumstances in which an moh will predetermine a cast within a class before draw out? Why do at some hunts the judges mark "1" on the back of 4 entry slips and "2" on the back of 4 more and threw them in the pile with the rest of cards?

__________________
Treedogg Mafia Blue Dogs

Last edited by ghostcoon on 04-04-2008 at 08:15 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

I don't know for sure but maybe he was listing judges (1) and guides (2) to be drawn to casts. UKC suggests drawing judges to the cast first, then guides, and then finish the casts with the other handlers.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

that makes sense, i guess its just the first time iv seen it organized.

__________________
Treedogg Mafia Blue Dogs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

He may be marking them because 1 owner might have multiple dogs entered in the event, to avoid putting them in the same cast.
Sometimes slips are marked for possible Guides and Judges, but generally that is done with a "G" or "J". Each MOH might have they're own way of doing it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

thats kinda what i figured but i was just real curious, thanks..

__________________
Treedogg Mafia Blue Dogs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

so if two guys co own a dog or two, they cannot draw out togther?

__________________
Treedogg Mafia Blue Dogs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

I'm not sure if it is against the rules but I think it is discouraged. I know it has happened before where family members get drawn out together but I don't think they "co-owned" the dogs, dogs might be registered in they're own names.
I just think it is frowned upon.
Sometimes it may not be avoidable if there multiple dogs entered by 1 owner or co-owner if there are not enough other entries to split them all in to they're own casts.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

There is nothing against drawing same owner dogs together. If dogs are owned or co-owned the owner or handler may request that they be drawn to seperate casts if possible.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2147

It says dogs with the same owners, will, be drawn out in seperate casts, if at all possible. Not what the owner wants to do, like some people think.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
I don't know for sure but maybe he was listing judges (1) and guides (2) to be drawn to casts. UKC suggests drawing judges to the cast first, then guides, and then finish the casts with the other handlers.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

I say pick the judges but why select someone simply because they are from the club?, pick judges that have demonstrated they are fair and understand the rules, then select the guide, then the remaining cast. That's they way its done it AKC and it seems to work out well.
I'd rather not go to a local hunt and see the MOH give the card to a club member or officer that only goes to 2 hunts a year (only the ones at his club) if there are more capable judges there. But sometimes guys don't want to go to another club and have the responsibility of carrying the card either.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

If a hunt draws 28 dogs, you should be able to pick 10 qualified judges. You segregate those ten possible judges, then draw at random the 7 that you need. The other three go back into the general draw. You get qualified judges on every cast and they are picked at random.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

quote:

---

Originally posted by brogy
I say pick the judges but why select someone simply because they are from the club?, pick judges that have demonstrated they are fair and understand the rules, then select the guide, then the remaining cast. That's they way its done it AKC and it seems to work out well.
I'd rather not go to a local hunt and see the MOH give the card to a club member or officer that only goes to 2 hunts a year (only the ones at his club) if there are more capable judges there. But sometimes guys don't want to go to another club and have the responsibility of carrying the card either.

---

Last edited by T Felderman on 04-02-2008 at 03:45 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Interestingly, PKC states in their rules that "if possible, use judges who are not members of the sponsoring club."

To me, choosing qualified judges is far more important than who they are or where they came from.

I'm not in favor of learing how to judge at local hunts or non-local hunts. Learning how to judge a cast is why we hold non-santioned club hunts.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I don't think that we should get caught up comparing one registry against another.

In one registry, the judge is a time keeper and that's about it. Everything is done by cast vote...there is not a lot of "judging".....

In another registry, it takes a cast vote to over rule the judges determination, and yet in another, the judge makes calls that are then subject to a cast vote.... so I think that there are fundamental differences in the roles and responsibilities of the judge.

I will say this...the quickest way to have a "bad" cast, is for there not to be an assigned judge on every card. I truly don't care how you go about it, but the MOH should ASSIGN the judge, not "let it fall into place". This is a recipe for disaster. I know that there are folks that just have are not "honest" enough to hold the card, there are others that don't know the rules enough to hold a card...and there are some folks that will use that position to their advantage at every opportunity.

The better dogs will always rise to the top. I get darn tired of judging all of the time. It does not matter which registry I go to, which dog I'm leading...my name ends up on the card. I can tell you it's not because of the quality of my dogs! It's because I know the rules, and about 50% of the folks I draw out with don't have a clue about how to judge a cast. The other 25% don't own a stop watch.....

Mr. Felderman, how many times have you answered the question.... "how much time is left on that tree?" And I'm not talking about the fellow that forgot to mash the button on his stopwatch, I'm talking about the guys that don't OWN one, and don't WANT TO OWN ONE....

It would be wonderful if everyone that entered a hunt would be upstanding citizens, would come prepared to judge a cast, and knew the rules well enough to judge a cast....the simple fact is that at every hunt there is a pool of folks that are "qualified" to judge, and there rest are participants....the MOH should assign judges from the qualified pool...then let the casts "fall into place".

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 307

The judges should be selected based on their integrity first and knowledge of the rules second. When I am a hunt director at a PKC or AKC hunt, I select the judges and stick them on the card, then let them draw their cast. An honest man ask about the rules, but you can't teach someone to be honest.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

I guess where i attend hunts there's enough qualified judges where the MOH signs a guide, looks at the card and can EASILY find a good judge. Maybe its a more laid back atmosphere?

For a $15 hunt I dont really care who judges; if your dog does what it's suppose to do thier isnt much judging involved.

Oak Ridge, I'm a horrible judge

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

my apoligies wayne, the post wasnt** directed for you. i just seen a bunch of times and then saw it last weekend and was curious thats all.

__________________
Treedogg Mafia Blue Dogs

Last edited by ghostcoon on 04-04-2008 at 08:15 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 4

my apoligies wayne, the post was directed for you. i just seen a bunch of times and then saw it last weekend and was curious thats all.

you've been a coonhunter for 2 mnths, how have u seen it a bunch of times? you sure got alot to say and plenty of trash talk for somone who just got started.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

and even if id started yesterday, whats wrong with wanting to know why this happens?

__________________
Treedogg Mafia Blue Dogs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

might as well delete the post. apparently anybody who asks anything is unexpierenced

__________________
Treedogg Mafia Blue Dogs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged