Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 307

What can a judge do,when cast members refuse to see a coon that is very obviously there? This weekend at an RQE this happened to a friend of mine, the coon was there, the other guy was shut out, and if they see a coon, he looses. He refused to see a coon. He won, and could possibly be the next UKC world Champion. This happens all the time, is there anything a judge can do about this. Could they be scrathed for unsportsman like conduct, and let the master of hounds sort it out? Unsportsman like conduct is a judgement call, why can't that be done? There has to be some way to protect the integrity of these hunts from these unscrupulous cheating scum bags.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

In UKC not much you can do with this situation.

Trees are voted on and for the most part thats pretty much all there is to it......The only salvation is you have to get at least one other cast member to "not see" the coon also.

I have seen this work both ways, some guys will swear up and down that a wide branch is a coon, when the rest of the cast just sees a branch...In his mind he was cheated.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 307

In this case, I know the 2 that saw the coon very well, no doubt in my mind that they did see a coon. Said it was in the wide open, see the whole thing. The fourth cast member wouldn't vote, he didn't want to get involved. He eventually did vote after the 2 that saw the coon insisted that he vote, he got mad, and voted that he couldn't tell if it was coon. This happens all the time, there must be something that can be done. Maybe a complaint should be filed, and if one guy has 3 complaints of this nature in a year, than he should be investigated. I don't know, something needs to be done.

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Vernon, Alabama
Posts: 2382

You can ask Mr. Scott Engle what he would do! lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

I cant really think of anything that can be done....Can you???? A non hunting judge at rqe's????? Tell us what dog is going to the zones for a crooked handler !!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 307

I am not gonna mention any names, this happens all the time. The true intention of my post is just to get some ideas of what might be done to try and fight this cancer that has started in our sport. It's easy to win if you can cheat like heck and not be held accountable. You don't need much of a dog to win like that. I'm not coping out by not telling who it was, I know UKC would delete the post if I did, and I really want to get some good ideas given if any exist.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: West Point, MS
Posts: 436

I WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU FOLKS. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO PROVE THAT SOMEONE CAN OR CANNOT SEE A COON IN A TREE. YOUR VISION IS NOT THE SAME AS MINE, NOR IS MINE THE SAME AS HIS. I AM NOT SO STUPID THAT I DONT REALIZE PEOPLE WILL LIE AND SAY THEY CANT SEE IT, BUT I ALSO KNOW OF A MAN THAT WAS SUSPENDED FROM ANOTHER KC BECAUSE HE HONESTLY COULD NOT SEE ONE.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Alexandria, IN
Posts: 2606

If your eye sight is that poor then you shouldn't be hunting in the hunts! At least not with people who can see, maybe a handicap cast or something like that! So a 2 to 2 vote got the tree thrown out Dave?

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 307

Yes, the vote was 2-2 so the master of hounds went with that. I know the guys very very well, and I know for 100% positive that it was just as they said. He sai dif it was even marginal he could understand it, but he said it was as plain as the nose on your face,he was furious, and he isn't that kind of guy.

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Disputanta, Virginia
Posts: 1524

I had a judge and another cast mamber on my 3 dog cast that wouldnt even look up the tree. I saw the coon and tried to show them and the judge just kept looking at the ground. I called him down on it and told him to look at my coon so he just turned around and looked the other way. When I said something else to him about not looking at my coon he just turned to me and said "times up". Both cast members were hunting partners and pleasure hunted together.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

well you cant shoot the coon out ,it will get you barred for 2 years while the cheats go Scott - free. (pun intended).
bout all i know a guy can do is walk away from it and someday,somewhere,you will get the opurtunity to get even,or maybe even ahead a little bit.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Shawnee,Oklahoma
Posts: 361

Hard to have a good hunt when you have guys like that. Not much could have done. I do know one thing, the guy that didnt want to get involved should have been scratched. Rules say vote or be scratched. I've had guys say that in casts before and that irritates me more than the guys that are just voting against you because your in the lead. Better luck next time.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

I will not even go to the woods on a two dog cast with a known cheater. I will ask for a non - hunting judge. Not a good situation for those envolved. I think those laser pointers may help out for the honest hunters that actually can't see the coon. When both bright eyes are looking right at you and the coon can't be seen, it's time to leave those boys in the woods by themselves. You can't whip there butts, call them bad names, etc.. You can leave them in the woods to allow their vision to clear up. Loose them while moving from one dump to the other.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: 148

Does UKC have some form of Handler Misconduct Report? If not, they need one. I had the same thing happen to me on a UKC hunt, where the coon was sitting in the wide open and a guy wouldn't see it. I took my phone out, which has a camera function, and started taking pictures. You really couldn't see the coon on the photo, but he didn't know that, and finally relented and said he saw him. Perhaps the threat of being outed was enough!

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: NW FL
Posts: 334

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedBones4me
I had a judge and another cast mamber on my 3 dog cast that wouldnt even look up the tree. I saw the coon and tried to show them and the judge just kept looking at the ground. I called him down on it and told him to look at my coon so he just turned around and looked the other way. When I said something else to him about not looking at my coon he just turned to me and said "times up". Both cast members were hunting partners and pleasure hunted together.

---

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: BLOOMFIELD IOWA
Posts: 2439

If you can see the coon and he can't go get the rifle and shoot it out! That will prove it.




























No don't do that just kidding! But I know we would like too.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

With everybody carrying these cell phones that take pictures and short videos , why are we not taking pictures of coons and video of those who refuse to look ?

They may not know if you can see the coon in the picture , but they'll sure know you can see them refusing to look in the video ! LOL

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 184

If you say "here he is!" and a handler(s) refuses to look, they are scratched for refuseing to score the tree. If they look and claim they can't see it, you are just screwed.

Been my experience that many more will try to score one that isn't there than ones that won't score one that is. But it certainly goes both ways.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: HARVEY,IOWA
Posts: 121

this is why some fellas with GREAT HOUNDS won't even TRY to participate anymore ,.I'm really gonna have ta adjust my attitude a bit when i start my son in the sport ,its such a great american tradition ,and some guys love the fact of stirring sh** in the woods, .If you win thats great and if you loses thats all right too ,just be da*n glad ya got to be there / cheaters suck .. and thats all i have ta say about that {scratchem }
GERRIT

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