Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
Posts: 572

I know this subject has been beat to death, but I believe the proof is in the pudding, or at least the Super Stake Sire of the Year and Super Stake Breeder of the Year.

20% of Fall 2004 pups are from All Grand Sires
10% of Fall 2004 Breeders are from All Grand Sires

30% of Spring 2004 pups are All Grand Sires
20% of Spring Breeders are from All Grand Sires

30% of Fall 2005 pups are from All Grand Sires
30% of Fall 2005 Breeders are from All Grand Sires

20% of Spring 2005 pups are from All Grand Sires
10% of Spring 2005 Breeders are from All Grand Sires

22% of all pups and breeders are from All Grand Sires. This is amazing considering the number of pups available out there.

PLUS, this figure could go up, but I do not know what many of the breeders breed to to acheive their rank in the list.

Crunch it anyway you wish, but your odds go up when you stick to proven hounds and pedigrees.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

Lets look at your numbers this way:

80% of Fall 2004 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Fall 2004 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Spring 2004 pups are NOT All Grand Sires
80% of Spring Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Fall 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
70% of Fall 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

80% of Spring 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Spring 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

78% of all pups and breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires.

Just shows me that coon dogs tree coons. Not Papers!!

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by Buckshot
Lets look at your numbers this way:

80% of Fall 2004 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Fall 2004 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Spring 2004 pups are NOT All Grand Sires
80% of Spring Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Fall 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
70% of Fall 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

80% of Spring 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Spring 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

78% of all pups and breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires.

Just shows me that coon dogs tree coons. Not Papers!!

---

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Blountsville, Alabama
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I agree with Buckshot percentages look different on the flip side. Its been said before and I'll say it again papers never did tree coons. Find a real coonhound that hunts the way you like and reproduces pups like you like and put that in your breeding program. Coonhound x Coonhound usually = Coonhounds. This formula creates coonhounds no matter how many grands in a pedigree. Amy

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Registered: Sep 2003
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[quote="Drew Werndli"]Lets look at your numbers this way:

80% of Fall 2004 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Fall 2004 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Spring 2004 pups are NOT All Grand Sires
80% of Spring Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Fall 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
70% of Fall 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

80% of Spring 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Spring 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

78% of all pups and breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires.

Just shows me that coon dogs tree coons. Not Papers!![/quote]

You numbers show how alot of them can not be placed in the top.

Out of the 8 division
4 sire of the years are All Grand
4 Breeders of the year litters were sire by ALL Grand

for a
100% total

You would not thank it would be 100% total with only 22% of the eligible hounds in the divisions being All Grand.

Where are your other 80% that tree coons and not papers?

Just shows me that coon dogs tree coons. Not Papers!! That is your quote, RIGHT!

By the way our of the 3 sire of the year races, the second place hound is All Grand also.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
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80% of the studs advertised are all grand so i would say they better have a few in the winners circle!!!because there the ones every tom,dick and harry is breeding to!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

I quoted your #'s and flipped it to show a more realistic look at how the all grand litters stack against non- grand.

quote:

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If 25 % of your pups become winners, would you not be happy?

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Dobson NC
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Buckshot
Lets look at your numbers this way:


Just shows me that coon dogs tree coons. Not Papers!!

---

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 543

Sam I believe you could just say Rat Attack has dominated the numbers, I wonder what the percents would be if you took him out of the all grand figures????

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Registered: Apr 2006
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i have always been and will believe dogs tree coon not papers

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Waynesburg, PA
Posts: 169

When was the last time an all grand dog won a world hunt?


I thought Jane was an all Grand but maybe not. I think that a lot of people that don't like all grand don't have all grand. If you take two pups that are equal in ability and one is all grand, guess which one is worth more money? I will hunt any kind of a dog, but if a dog is a true coon dog, the all grand is sure a plus to me. JMO

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

What the heck did people do before all grand? I am suprised anyone ever won anything without that pedigree behind them.

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 82

quote:

---

Originally posted by Buckshot
Lets look at your numbers this way:

80% of Fall 2004 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Fall 2004 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Spring 2004 pups are NOT All Grand Sires
80% of Spring Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

70% of Fall 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
70% of Fall 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

80% of Spring 2005 pups are NOT from All Grand Sires
90% of Spring 2005 Breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires

78% of all pups and breeders are NOT from All Grand Sires.

Just shows me that coon dogs tree coons. Not Papers!!

---

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It is darn sure alot easier to promote a breeding program by pushing the titles than it is by winning the big hunts. Get a copy of Bloodlines mag and it won't take you long to figure out where to take your NtCh and put a win towards Grand by winning a 2 dog NtCh hunt. There are handlers all over the country that make a career and prolly a living putting titles on mediocre coonhounds. Those that hunt hard, get around to hunts and draw the tough dogs know what is producing the dogs that win. Serious pleasure hunters are out there hunting with a wide variety of hounds and know what is producing the type of hound they want on a consistant basis. Then you have the halfassed wannabe's that don't hunt enough to know what a coondog is and they buy the advertiseing. And there will always be enough of them to keep the AllGrands in demand and selling for top dollar. I got no problem with that. Buy what you want, it's your money. And if you don't spend it, the govrnment will find a way to get out from under you anyway.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Madison, Wi.
Posts: 489

with what buckshot is saying, been that way for 100 years & is still working just fine now. The Jane dog is all Grand thou, Im not sure she was when she won the world, I think someone just finished out a dog in her 3 gen this year. But I read were Jane's people said she was a 4 gen all grand on the Quick thread. Jane's papers didn't tree those coon either, she is the same dog as a non all grand as she is with the ped,

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Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Dogs
80% of the studs advertised are all grand so i would say they better have a few in the winners circle!!!because there the ones every tom,dick and harry is breeding to!!!!

---

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Aiken, SC
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I've got three all-grand dogs. One is a Rat bitch, one is a Big Kahuna bitch and the other is a Big Kahuna male. One of them just turned two years old, the other two are younger than that.

They have already treed me as many coons as I have treed in the past 10 years when I have not had all-grand dogs. They are not perfect, but they hunt hard, they are not junky, not slick-treeing idiots, and generally just suit me. They would suit a lot of people.

They would suit me just as well if they were not all-grand. But it just hasn't worked out that way for me. I have seen some fine hounds that were not all-grand. But dollar for dollar, in my experience, it has been a much better deal.

What would you pay for a 16 or 17 month old all-grand Night Champion male with his hundred dollars won and two Super Stakes left to hunt? If you can find one for sale, I can promise you it will hurt your pocket book. I've got one well on the way. Gave $500 for him. Wish all my investments had that kind of return...

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

keep doing your research and %, i have owned and i have hunted a couple all grand. i wasted 2yrs. trying to get them to tree coon. i do have my own stud and he is not all grand. but most of his pups can be hunted by themselves before they are a year old. i am by no means jealous, i could give a rats a$$ if nobody breeds to my dog. i'm glad you are having such good luck. i can only go with my expeirence. sorry for the mis information i dont read a magazine with a calculator in my hand. but i'll still say the all grand are being bred to more than the others.and i would be willing to say the age of the culls will be a little older because it would be very hard to tell your wife you just shot that 1500.00 dollar pup.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
Posts: 572

quote:

---

Originally posted by Buckshot

Just a couple side question. How many all grand dogs was on the final cast of the 2006 UKC World Hunt? The final cast match my numbers. Jane made up 25% of the cast.

Insane Jane is out of an all grand male

Did one of them win? YEP
Insane Jane is out of an all grand male and is a world champion

Or did a single registered hound win it?

How many all grand dogs are in the AKC final tonight?

When was the last time an all grand dog won a world hunt?

Overall, who has won consistently in the hunts - non-grand papered hounds or all grand papered hounds? [/B]

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by treekatie
I've got three all-grand dogs. One is a Rat bitch, one is a Big Kahuna bitch and the other is a Big Kahuna male. One of them just turned two years old, the other two are younger than that.

They have already treed me as many coons as I have treed in the past 10 years when I have not had all-grand dogs. They are not perfect, but they hunt hard, they are not junky, not slick-treeing idiots, and generally just suit me. They would suit a lot of people.

They would suit me just as well if they were not all-grand. But it just hasn't worked out that way for me. I have seen some fine hounds that were not all-grand. But dollar for dollar, in my experience, it has been a much better deal.

What would you pay for a 16 or 17 month old all-grand Night Champion male with his hundred dollars won and two Super Stakes left to hunt? If you can find one for sale, I can promise you it will hurt your pocket book. I've got one well on the way. Gave $500 for him. Wish all my investments had that kind of return...

---

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Registered: Nov 2005
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X Jr was also All Grand.He won the World Ch.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
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quote:

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People keep doing that because they are jealous of what others have and will not take the time and effort to improve.

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Last edited by Buckshot on 10-01-2006 at 03:33 PM

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Buckshot

I am also smart enough to know that if all grands are only winning 25% of the time, I'd rather take my chances on non-grands that are winning 75% of the time.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Lexington,Al.
Posts: 459

It is pretty cut -n- dry,

If you want a All Grand, get one

If not, don't buy one.



Papers do not mean anything as a coondog.

Some people prefer to take a chance on a all grand, so if it turns out, the price will be high for selling.Or thay are looking for their next big stud or reproducing female.


I myself like the All Grand dogs. But if a pup comes along that is not all grand that will tree coons, I like that to.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

quote:

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WD Ch X Jr
WD Insane Jane
Futurity Jet
National Mable
SS Champion Briar Creek Zeb
SS Champion Hammer

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