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-- Question for OLD Pleasure Houndsperson ONLY- (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928560033)

Question for OLD Pleasure Houndsperson ONLY-

This is only for the people that feed-care and follow their hound/hounds for the enjoyment of the “music and hound work”.

What are you doing with the lost of the trailing ability that we had years ago back in the 50’s-70’s??

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OLD TIMER

Ive had very few cold nosed dogs that could move a track like i like.ive bought pups out of cold nosed parents and have not been satisfied with most of them. I like listening to open dogs but cannot stand a open dog that straddles a track or boo-hoos around on it so I've been content to hunt a more tight mouthed dog which I think alot of people are breeding for.Sorry iam not much help.

buff1978

You described 2 traits I will not hunt, 1) boo-hoo 2) tight mouth.

They have to let me know when they first start the track. Then they have to communicate to me as they work it. The warmer, the more they communicate. If I have to hunt with a GPS in my hand I sure will not feed that dog.

Locate-check the tree and if there, then tree until I get there. I will not walk away from more than 1 or 2 trees out of 10 without seeing fur. This 50-60% accurate is a bunch of BS.

And as I walk I best not pass any eyes without my partner working a track. If I wanted to tree a raccoon 2 miles from the truck, I'm smart enough to unload at that spot?

Maybe my best track hound was a Redbone I got from Paul Swetnam in the 80's. My daughter named him Mikie because on the way home as a pup, he would "ate anything." He was out of Ch GrNite Ch Chatman's Northern Hoss and Pauls Rose-Max Bobby Su. Loaded with the who's who of Roy Blakesleys old blood along with Hunter's Timber Chopper and Norman Lufcys blood. He would take old tracks that other hounds didn't know was there and run them like a hot track. Was bawl on track and tree but his tree mouth was totally different.

I have buried a lot of different blood because they didn't fill the qualifications for the job. I am lucky to have one now that is very close to Mikie on tracking with the biggest difference being after his long locate he chops on the tree.

Thank you for your responsed

OT

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OLD TIMER

What breed do you have currently. As stated above i like a good open dog like you describe but there likes hens teeth to find as you well know.

Buff1978

Chance is a Redbone

He goes back to a lot of the blood Mikie had and I am very lucky for the guys that produced him.

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OLD TIMER

Thanks for the response.

I like and try to hunt the type hound you describe.5 years ago i met a country coonhunter that had a good proven cross of Smoky river bluetick pups .I got a male pup out of the third time cross litter.The dam died having the fourth litter. I didnt know when i picked up my pup hed be my favorite coondog of my 55 years of hunting coonhounds and currs.Hes a honest strike trail and treedog.Definitely the best trackdog ive hunted.If you can find a good cross of smoky River blueticks you could maybe have what you describe liking.I hunted TW and englsh mostly.Never thought blueticks would ever make me this happy.

quote:

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Originally posted by Georgeb Amen!
I like and try to hunt the type hound you describe.5 years ago i met a country coonhunter that had a good proven cross of Smoky river bluetick pups .I got a male pup out of the third time cross litter.The dam died having the fourth litter. I didnt know when i picked up my pup hed be my favorite coondog of my 55 years of hunting coonhounds and currs.Hes a honest strike trail and treedog.Definitely the best trackdog ive hunted.If you can find a good cross of smoky River blueticks you could maybe have what you describe liking.I hunted TW and englsh mostly.Never thought blueticks would ever make me this happy.

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Did we really lose trailing ability or trailing desire? I have a male bluetick out of Big Country. I started him by himself. He goes hunting hard and wide. when he started he treed coons far away and didn't trail much. I started hunting him with a cold trailing dog and he started trailing with her. I would cut them together and he would be 100 yards ahead of her when she struck. He would come back and trail with her on a track he had just run over, so obviously he could smell it. And trail it faster than her. It didn't seem so much like a cold track anymore. I've been coon hunting 65 years and I have never seen a dog trail very far where nothing else could open on it. Lion hunters use the same dogs we use. If trailing has been bred out of modern dogs, I think they have less desire to trail, but the nose is there. Anyway, I'm enjoying mine. Both are very accurate.

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Donald Bergeron

Shadinc

I can only speak on behalf of the Lion Hunters I have sold pups to out west and Canada. They did not want what “most” are hunting. They wanted pack hounds, open trailing and cold nose.

I’m confused on why your hound would miss a track and have to come back??

As far as hounds opening on a track that others couldn’t smell-I was on a 4 hound cast in Janesville WI and Cheta II opened on the leash and the others said nothing. They said to cut loose and she was the only one that took the track down a tree line, opening all the way, into a big woods before another finally opened and they treed it. The other two never did open

I have also seen it many times while coyote hunting. Find a track and a guy will put out his “cold trailer” and it goes 100 or so yards and comes back. I’ll put out one of my sorry old Liquor bred Walkers and they open here and then another 100 yards and before long they open every 50-75 yards and when it’s jumped it’s a every breathe race to catch.

So if you are correct and they can smell it but not want to work it?? Not my type of hunting partner.

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OLD TIMER

outstanding track dogs

Qutstanding trackdogs are a combination of three traits:
INTELLIGENCE
DESIRE
SCENTING ABILITY

I do not believe that all dogs have the same scenting. Probably similar to varibilty that exists between humans.

After a couple tracks, AN OUTSTANDING TRACKDOG will make packdogs out of Loners.

The majority of hunters have never owned or seen an OUTSTANDING trackdog. Hunting in the snow shows the truth.

Just my opinion.
Ken Risley

Mr Ken—

You are so right on snow. I laugh at these “hunters” today that just learnt what their hounds are doing because of the Garmin. Heck, the snow in 1955 taught me that my buddies “cold nose” hound that was cold trailing and treed on a den was just back tracking because I have yet to see a raccoon walk backwards. Another “trick” the guy that got me into foxhounds show a guy that his “cold nose” hound wasn’t so cold but would just open in the print of the paw in the snow when he took a broom handle and poked a bunch of holes in the snow and old Topper would but his nose in each hole and bawl.

I remember setting in the truck at six years old and watching Louie putting his finger in the snow and coming back and telling me how hot the track was!! I thought, isn’t snow cold? I have had the privilege to teach my granddaughter how to tell the age of a track.

I am also a believer that brains have treed and caught more game than any other strength a hound can have. We have a say, “pressure will break the dam and catch a coyote.”

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OLD TIMER

If producing exceptional dogs was a science, breeding would have been figured out way more than it is long ago. Its hard business finding a high quality night in night out hound. Finding one that is a consistent all weather dog and adding to it specific characteristics your prefer adds an entire new level of difficulty. Like you said you buried a lot of attempts and im sure all or a lot of them were from stock that operated the way you like.. but still didn't reproduce what you like.

There is a reason they call them once in a lifetime hounds. Maybe a few extremely dedicated hunters and breeders have a few through hard work or a chunk of money...but for the average guy it takes more years than we have to find these exceptional animals that never last long enough.

Good luck on your search. I hope you find what your after and 1000 more for the rest of us.

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The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

Mr Ron—

Not sure that with $0 to $3 hides and $10,000 to $50,000 pay outs that there are 1,000 people left who enjoy and want a hound to hunt the way I like.

I know for a fact that the hound that will work an old track and tree will not win the big money just like the NASCAR
Championship truck will ever have a hound box in the back of it. And that’s OK with me.

Thanks for your comment and good hunting.

OT

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OLD TIMER

OT:

what you said is 100% spot on, and there in lies the problem, the market. The pleasure hunter is very quickly becoming a thing of the past. People who breed dogs need people to buy pups and the best way to do this is breed to what is winning. What is winning style wise isn't what you are after.

I have the best dog ill ever own right now, but when you unsnap her you wont see her til you find her treed. Many nights its more of a commitment than what i have time for. I bred her to a winner and the pups I kept were overwhelming for me. Too much of what I didn't want. This next go around I went a totally different route and tried to breed to a male that was owned by guys like me. They were simply coonhunters. I had have a pup out of the male not out of my female who I really enjoy. I had to accept I would probably have to give the pups away and hope for the best....not what most people want to do.

Times have changed, hunting has changed. We have to stick to our guns unless we want to change with it

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The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

Leopard cur/hound

Ever hunt with any? Lot of big game hunters use them. I am a pleasure hunter and have hunted them for 50 years. I have really enjoyed them !! Well rounded dogs. I believe more personality than most hound breeds. More social hunters. Good handle. Thanks Perry

Thanks Mr Perry—

I have hunted with “mix” bred dogs BUT I like those long ears, square head, dark eyes, bawl track, good locate with nice change over.

Now the mix bred dogs did tree me game but I just didn’t get the enjoyment out of them when caring from them like I do with the above hounds.

Thanks for the comment

OT

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OLD TIMER

Re: outstanding track dogs

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kler Kry
Qutstanding trackdogs are a combination of three traits:
INTELLIGENCE
DESIRE
SCENTING ABILITY

I do not believe that all dogs have the same scenting. Probably similar to varibilty that exists between humans.

After a couple tracks, AN OUTSTANDING TRACKDOG will make packdogs out of Loners.

The majority of hunters have never owned or seen an OUTSTANDING trackdog. Hunting in the snow shows the truth.

Just my opinion.
Ken Risley

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Nose and Trailing Ability

(1) Do not confuse openness on track with nose and trailing ability. Quite often, the dogs with the best nose and trailing ability learn to keep their mouths shut.
(2) Tracking on snow. Though it might sound good, snow is moisture (which retains scent). Dry and dusty provides for much tougher tracking conditions.
(3) Decline in tracking ability? Without a doubt! But, is this because the dog doesn't have it in them, or is it that the hunter doesn't have it in them to develop that ability?
(4) Night Hunts. They've gone from 4 hours (before my time), to 3 Hours, to 2 Hours, to in some cases now 1 hour. This is kind of like shifting from workhorses to thoroughbreds to quarter horses. And, all of them are still out there (all in diminishing numbers).

Mr Honalieh—

I will not hunt nor feed a silent hound. I don’t care if it can tree 100% of its tracks with game in the tree. I don’t hunt to watch a screen just to heard a dog barking at a tree.

Second, yes dry ground can be a challenge but so can 6 inches of dry snow after a couple -20/-30 nights or a 1/4 to 1/2 inch of crusty snow with a 10-15 mph wind.

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OLD TIMER

Re: Mr Honalieh—

quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
I will not hunt nor feed a silent hound. I don’t care if it can tree 100% of its tracks with game in the tree. I don’t hunt to watch a screen just to heard a dog barking at a tree.

Second, yes dry ground can be a challenge but so can 6 inches of dry snow after a couple -20/-30 nights or a 1/4 to 1/2 inch of crusty snow with a 10-15 mph wind.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Re: outstanding track dogs

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kler Kry
Qutstanding trackdogs are a combination of three traits:
INTELLIGENCE
DESIRE
SCENTING ABILITY

I do not believe that all dogs have the same scenting. Probably similar to varibilty that exists between humans.

After a couple tracks, AN OUTSTANDING TRACKDOG will make packdogs out of Loners.

The majority of hunters have never owned or seen an OUTSTANDING trackdog. Hunting in the snow shows the truth.

Just my opinion.
Ken Risley

---

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

The great hunting dogs or should I say the really good ones…these dogs don’t need to be hunted much to be good hunting dogs just enough to be in shape, but like anything else the more they are hunted the better, to a point…and we need to mention the right training because that is important…
I envision the great ones know how to work a track…where they excel is how easy it is for them to straighten out the track while other dogs will spend some time working and straightening the track…the great one is well on its way to treeing or baying the game…

I never spent much time in trying to make a hunting dog…I want a pup that just needs some exposure and taught to hunt the game of choice…

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

The great hunting dogs or should I say the really good ones…these dogs don’t need to be hunted much to be good hunting dogs just enough to be in shape, but like anything else the more they are hunted the better, to a point…and we need to mention the right training because that is important…
I envision the great ones know how to work a track…where they excel is how easy it is for them to straighten out the track while other dogs will spend some time working and straightening the track…the great one is well on its way to treeing or baying the game…

I never spent much time in trying to make a hunting dog…I want a pup that just needs some exposure and taught to hunt the game of choice…

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...