UKC Forums - Dog treeing but not declared struck or treed

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-- Dog treeing but not declared struck or treed (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928547158)

Posted by Tillery on 08-17-2022 05:19 PM:

Dog treeing but not declared struck or treed

4 dog cast.
Dog A struck for 100, B for 75, and C for 50.
Dog C declared treed for 125. Dogs A and B each treed for 25.
When cast arrives at tree, Dogs B, C, and D are showing treed and are handled. Dog A is minused 25 for leaving tree. Dogs B and C receive plus points because coon is found in tree.

What should happen with dog D?

Posted by lukeduke73 on 08-17-2022 06:15 PM:

D is minuses next available tree point

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Posted by Tillery on 08-17-2022 06:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by lukeduke73
D is minuses next available tree point

Can you explain how you arrived at that decision?

Posted by lukeimhof on 08-17-2022 07:25 PM:

rule 4d. Dog(s) treeing but not declared treed when
judge arrives receives minus strike points if coon is seen.

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Posted by Tillery on 08-17-2022 07:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by lukeimhof
rule 4d. Dog(s) treeing but not declared treed when
judge arrives receives minus strike points if coon is seen.

The dog was never struck, so there were no strike points to minus.

Posted by lukeimhof on 08-17-2022 07:37 PM:

dog must be struck or he will get minused for not striking either way hes getting minused

rule 2a.

For dog not declared struck on
third bark on first offense; judge shall issue warning and ask for call. Dog must be
declared struck on next bark. Otherwise; if not declared struck on next bark, dog
to be minused available strike position and assigned that position on scorecard.
On second offense; judge shall minus the available strike points and ask for a call
on next bark. Otherwise; dog shall be scratched if not declared struck on next
bark. On third offense; the dog is scratched.

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Posted by Tillery on 08-17-2022 09:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by lukeimhof
dog must be struck or he will get minused for not striking either way hes getting minused

rule 2a.

For dog not declared struck on
third bark on first offense; judge shall issue warning and ask for call. Dog must be
declared struck on next bark. Otherwise; if not declared struck on next bark, dog
to be minused available strike position and assigned that position on scorecard.
On second offense; judge shall minus the available strike points and ask for a call
on next bark. Otherwise; dog shall be scratched if not declared struck on next
bark. On third offense; the dog is scratched.

I agree, but I don't think he could be minused without the handler receiving a warning first, could he? The judge didn't know the dog was opening until he was handled at the tree. So, that is when the warning would have been issued and the dog was already handled at that point.

Posted by lukeimhof on 08-18-2022 01:35 PM:

i feel he needs to take his minus he knew that dog was opening and was trying to get away with not calling his dog.

we need Allen or Trevor to chime in and educate us on this

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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 08-18-2022 03:58 PM:

Dog D should have been struck in when he was heard opening but since he was shut out on the strike and he is on the tree that he was shut out on his strike points are deleted.

If the tree was slick or had off game minus tree points would have been assigned. Since there was a coon scored and the tree was plussed dog D gets nothing on tree and his strike points were deleted due to being shut out on strike so he gets nothing, plus or minus.

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Posted by Lance Laymon on 08-18-2022 05:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
Dog D should have been struck in when he was heard opening but since he was shut out on the strike and he is on the tree that he was shut out on his strike points are deleted.

If the tree was slick or had off game minus tree points would have been assigned. Since there was a coon scored and the tree was plussed dog D gets nothing on tree and his strike points were deleted due to being shut out on strike so he gets nothing, plus or minus.

There is your answer. Doesn't matter if he strikes or not it is deleted. I have had this happen tons of times in a cast. Handle them up and recast.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-18-2022 05:20 PM:

What happens to D.... nothing.

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Posted by Tillery on 08-18-2022 05:54 PM:

I was judging this cast. Nothing happened to dog D. We scored the tree and recast. The way I see it, that was the only option. I had gotten differing opinions and just wanted to see how you guys saw it.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 08-19-2022 01:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
Dog D should have been struck in when he was heard opening but since he was shut out on the strike and he is on the tree that he was shut out on his strike points are deleted.

If the tree was slick or had off game minus tree points would have been assigned. Since there was a coon scored and the tree was plussed dog D gets nothing on tree and his strike points were deleted due to being shut out on strike so he gets nothing, plus or minus.

Correct.

Just to add a little......By rule......As soon as it was apparent, the judge should have asked for a call and issued a warning, and the dog then be declared struck on the next bark. This should have happened before the dog was handled. In the end, the scorecard should have reflected this. As it was, the scorecard reflected that Dog D made less than three barks if any at all.

The fact that trees are closed, it's a previously scored tree, etc, etc... does not change the fact that a dog must be declared struck after one minute of having been turned loose, worst case scenario, on the next bark after the judge asked for a call.

Posted by Tillery on 08-19-2022 03:14 PM:

Some clarity

This cast consisted of 4 male walker dogs. 3 dogs were declared treed and there were 3 dogs showing treed when the cast arrived. The judge didn't know which dog was which until they were handled. At that point it was evident what had happened but the dogs were already on the leash. Warning was given to handler but he wasn't asked to strike his dog.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 08-19-2022 03:26 PM:

Re: Some clarity

quote:
Originally posted by Tillery
This cast consisted of 4 male walker dogs. 3 dogs were declared treed and there were 3 dogs showing treed when the cast arrived. The judge didn't know which dog was which until they were handled. At that point it was evident what had happened but the dogs were already on the leash. Warning was given to handler but he wasn't asked to strike his dog.

There ya go. Sometimes you have to have been there to fully understand the scenario. It's easier to play push button judge and jury.

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