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-- Crazy (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928542079)

Crazy

Tell me what you believe.
Whats the most important to you? Coonhound that finds a coon or trees? I didnt know all this was going on. When I bought my dogs 2 yrs ago. All I wanted was dogs that would find me a coon.
Me and my daughter have been to hunts since, without our dogs, and they are winning without no coons shined. Is this for real everywhere?

I want mine to be accurate to hit a tree that had a coon in it....anything wrong with that???

70%?????

Had not had to purchase a dog in several years. Started looking last year. Amazed at the number of people that thought a dog that had the coon 70% of the time when they treed was great!! Most seem to think 50%-60% was acceptable.
I hunted leopards for decades. I was use to seeing coon or a den hole a very high percentage of the time. The new normal would not meet my standards.

Also pleasure style dogs are looked at as inferior by a lot of today's hunters. A dog that checks a tree is getting rare and definitely looked down on by the majority of today's hunters.

Having said all of this coon hunters in my area would be nearly non existent if not for the competition hunters.

I am a bit of a dinosaur. I like a dog that checks a tree. I prefer a dog that hunts an area and checks in occasionally. My tracker is an old analog style and I use it maybe 4-5 times a season. I use an old filament style head light. I use a belt light! My head light is older than most hunters. just rite style head light on a Sunburst eagle II. I work for a living so most nights I am home before the 11:00 news and usually tree 2 or 3 coons. I consider myself a pleasure hunter and these things are what brings me pleasure. bottom line for me!!

To each their own!!

Perry

Winning hunts without a coon can only happen in pkc not ukc unless you're a dishonest person. It sure doesn't happen in pkc often either but it can happen just because they always have a winner.
As for % of coon in the trees. Most people can't handle the truth about the percentage of coon there dog trees. A dog that has the coon 80 % of the time is not common it's exceptional. Most dogs are good at 60% . If you don't believe it put your best dog on paper and keep honest records.

I myself would rather hear the cold hard facts than have someone tell me there dog is 90%accurate. There just blowing smoke.

The biggest problem with this is there's no way to tell how accurate a dog is. If you had a dog that was 100% accurate what percentage of the coons would you find, Some nights you might find 5 out of 5 the next night 0 out of five. We all know how accurate our dog is.

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Donald Bergeron

Not a LumberJack—

My freezer has always only held fur, no 2x4s

I wish I could have talked with the Lee Brothers or Ben Lilly and what they did with hounds that were right only 50 or 60% of the time? I know I’m not feeding something like that. How darn hard is it to take A TRACK and follow it to the END? Those that still breed for brains know what it takes. These hounds today maybe getting like those “wonderful” athletes we have where it’s just about the money and win at any cost?

Don’t understand how anyone could want a “deep and lonely” and be happy with them right only 60%?? That’s like playing basketball by yourself and still losing!😂

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OLD TIMER

a dog being accurate the most important to me, if we bred for more trail power and less tree power our dogs just might get more accurate.as long as my dog barks enough for me to find him thats all i expect out of him, i never liked them blow the top out tree dogs seems to me them kinds i hunted with missed to much.

Re: Not a LumberJack—

quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
My freezer has always only held fur, no 2x4s

I wish I could have talked with the Lee Brothers or Ben Lilly and what they did with hounds that were right only 50 or 60% of the time? I know I’m not feeding something like that. How darn hard is it to take A TRACK and follow it to the END? Those that still breed for brains know what it takes. These hounds today maybe getting like those “wonderful” athletes we have where it’s just about the money and win at any cost?

Don’t understand how anyone could want a “deep and lonely” and be happy with them right only 60%?? That’s like playing basketball by yourself and still losing!😂

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

I tend to disagree a little. The dogs that win a lot are accurate.Look at the play x plays on the big hunts. It's not unusual for a cast to score plus on about every tree made. BUT, it could be that these big winners are trained a little better.... Just food for thought. I'm not walking to many empty trees before I do some training and if the dogs not trainable, its not staying here. Most hunters will let their dogs be in charge of the hunt simply because they are attached to the dog and wont admit the dog has issues. It's like the hunter that always gets cheated but never gets beat fairly. Jr.Steelman

quote:

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Originally posted by delta slough
I tend to disagree a little. The dogs that win a lot are accurate.Look at the play x plays on the big hunts. It's not unusual for a cast to score plus on about every tree made. BUT, it could be that these big winners are trained a little better.... Just food for thought. I'm not walking to many empty trees before I do some training and if the dogs not trainable, its not staying here. Most hunters will let their dogs be in charge of the hunt simply because they are attached to the dog and wont admit the dog has issues. It's like the hunter that always gets cheated but never gets beat fairly. Jr.Steelman

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__________________
Donald Bergeron

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
The biggest problem with this is there's no way to tell how accurate a dog is. If you had a dog that was 100% accurate what percentage of the coons would you find, Some nights you might find 5 out of 5 the next night 0 out of five. We all know how accurate our dog is.

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Not a LumberJack—

quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
My freezer has always only held fur, no 2x4s

I wish I could have talked with the Lee Brothers or Ben Lilly and what they did with hounds that were right only 50 or 60% of the time? I know I’m not feeding something like that. How darn hard is it to take A TRACK and follow it to the END? Those that still breed for brains know what it takes. These hounds today maybe getting like those “wonderful” athletes we have where it’s just about the money and win at any cost?

Don’t understand how anyone could want a “deep and lonely” and be happy with them right only 60%?? That’s like playing basketball by yourself and still losing!😂

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Re: Re: Not a LumberJack—

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Now post your year long accurate records. It will be interesting to see your results and we can cut threw the smoke.

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__________________
Donald Bergeron

Re: Re: Not a LumberJack—

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Now post your year long accurate records. It will be interesting to see your results and we can cut threw the smoke.

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Ok Donald and Dave you 2 may make a valid point about the leaves .
So what % do you 2 fellows think most good dogs are? What % do you 2 fellows think is exceptional accuracy?

Crazy

Why in the world would anyone suggest keeping score for 12 months to determine a dogs accuracy, when you have no real idea when the leaves are on. You might see the coon, you might not. Keep score in Dec, Jan, Feb and March without leaves, then you have a fair basis for determining accuracy. Hunting dogs with poor accuracy should be very easy to see in the winter months. Summer hunting means nothing as far as accuracy goes. If hides were high, you wreally see who had the accurate dogs and the ones that just made excuses. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Crazy

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Why in the world would anyone suggest keeping score for 12 months to determine a dogs accuracy, when you have no real idea when the leaves are on. You might see the coon, you might not. Keep score in Dec, Jan, Feb and March without leaves, then you have a fair basis for determining accuracy. Hunting dogs with poor accuracy should be very easy to see in the winter months. Summer hunting means nothing as far as accuracy goes. If hides were high, you wreally see who had the accurate dogs and the ones that just made excuses. Dave

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Re: Re: Crazy

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
with leaves off. Just a couple months. And you say?

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__________________
Donald Bergeron

Re: Re: Crazy

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
with leaves off. Just a couple months. And you say?

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

I love these accuracy threads. Poor ole horse has been whittled down to ground chuck.

People counting dens as coon seen is the one that makes me smile.

Them 2 out of 3 models (66%) aren’t as common as they’re made out to be when you count trees made vs coon seen, regardless of time of year. 80-90 percent may be hens teeth possible, but more of a freak than a common occurrence when counting trees made vs coon seen.

After all, what is the determining factor of accuracy? 😉

In the mean time, I’ll keep aspiring for one of those two out of three culls 😎

__________________
Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

A 2 outta 3 cull almost sounds like 60 some %.

Like I have said 90% and someone is trying to blow smoke up someone's back side!

Depends on weather u want to hear the truth or what to believe smoke. Most can't handle the truth.

.

I get to talk on the phone with a men that are winning these hunts from time to time. Some also keep stats and records on their hounds. That in itself does't make the dog or handler any better than someone that don't. But they know what the score is with their hound. Chat with one fellow that said his dog in a year was above 90% accurate. Said within that year he has also won over $100,000 including a couple trucks. Said he wasn't pushing the dog in small hunts but hunting hard and training/conditioning his dog alone. Said several nice hounds he owned with several hundred thousand dollars of winnings went other places to be handled as he was concentrating on just one dog. Then once or twice a month he puts the dog in a hunt.

Treeing accuracy is not all these dogs need to have. I have a dear friend that has the most accurate dog I perhaps ever hunted with. He was a dog that came from up north. Down here when the water got deep the dog struggled as it took away some of the dogs drive to find a coon in this mess. Dog is taken back up north a few months ago. Wins 2 our of 3 cast at english days. Goes to World hunt and does real well Friday and pretty good Saturday but did not win the cast and didn't advance. Nice hound up North and as accurate as there is.

Roll the clock back 6 years ago and I knew the accuracy it took for my dog to have a chance at breaking even on traveling to hunts and winning big. That number is 80% and your in the game most nights. You can get by with 70% but at 60% your only fooling yourself and spending money. Because with those percentages of having coons there are going to be bad breaks preventing you from finding all of them.

Also the most important thing is you know the truth and that is all that matters. 60% and you just have to be content pleasure hunting them. If you accept that number.

Like I said there is a lot more to a winner than just tree accuracy but that is a great place to start and standard to maintain. But there will be other quirks with the dog. Many of the most accurate dogs alive have never been in a competition hunt. And they could not win in one at the upper level of this game.

Anyone that has done this 50 plus years probably didn't have slick trees in their vocabulary back then like it is today. I probably hunted 2 or 3 years before I heard someone mention that about a slick treeing dog. It was about catching coon and that is what you did. Then some of these flashy radical tree dogs showed up and you had something else to worry about. Slick Trees! People chose to have the flashy dog over the coon treeing dog. Yes, people chose that and that is why we are where we are today as a whole. But you don't have to have them today. The choice is yours. I might have to ask a breeder this. But if we replaced our dogs with more accurate dogs. We then also bred more accurate dogs. Then took the cage coon and coon scent away from the trainers. I think we might have more accurate dogs. But that is my thinking. But not as much fun. I say, lets just have fun as life is short. We didn't arrive today with the brightest lights ever to not search trees 20 or 30 minutes and get our money's worth out of our lights. Then the lights tells us the truth and we still pet our dogs because they tree so hard. Plus that light allowed you to take some flashy pictures of the dog treeing.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Accuracy can also come at a cost. I hunt a pretty accurate dog but he also will check a tree several times before he settles on it. (He doesn't do this on a hot coon) So if your hunting with a quick but less accurate dog, many times my dog will trail and locate the tree but check himself while the quick tree dog will actually get first tree. But if I want to go tree coon this is the dog I take. Also most ambush style dogs are pretty accurate but they are not my style dog.

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Tom Wood

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I get to talk on the phone with a men that are winning these hunts from time to time. Some also keep stats and records on their hounds. That in itself does't make the dog or handler any better than someone that don't. But they know what the score is with their hound. Chat with one fellow that said his dog in a year was above 90% accurate. Said within that year he has also won over $100,000 including a couple trucks. Said he wasn't pushing the dog in small hunts but hunting hard and training/conditioning his dog alone. Said several nice hounds he owned with several hundred thousand dollars of winnings went other places to be handled as he was concentrating on just one dog. Then once or twice a month he puts the dog in a hunt.

Treeing accuracy is not all these dogs need to have. I have a dear friend that has the most accurate dog I perhaps ever hunted with. He was a dog that came from up north. Down here when the water got deep the dog struggled as it took away some of the dogs drive to find a coon in this mess. Dog is taken back up north a few months ago. Wins 2 our of 3 cast at english days. Goes to World hunt and does real well Friday and pretty good Saturday but did not win the cast and didn't advance. Nice hound up North and as accurate as there is.

Roll the clock back 6 years ago and I knew the accuracy it took for my dog to have a chance at breaking even on traveling to hunts and winning big. That number is 80% and your in the game most nights. You can get by with 70% but at 60% your only fooling yourself and spending money. Because with those percentages of having coons there are going to be bad breaks preventing you













from finding all of them.

Also the most important thing is you know the truth and that is all that matters.



Bruce, Your post was telling it like it is, one man's trash is another man's treasure. I can not accept poor accuracy in these mountains, there is no way that I want to walk to a bunch of empty trees. I remember a post you made talking about how folks can never change the things they accept and accuracy is definitely one of those. In flat land with lots of coon, a man might not worry about a 60-70 percent accurate dog, but it is a problem for me hunting in these steep mountains. Accurate, deadly accurate coon dogs are not common, but they exist. I do not enjoy a common dog or horse, I want the ones with that extra gear. Hunt what you like and can afford, but always know they are better dogs if you are willing to pay the price. Dave











60% and you just have to be content pleasure hunting them. If you accept that number.

Like I said there is a lot more to a winner than just tree accuracy but that is a great place to start and standard to maintain. But there will be other quirks with the dog. Many of the most accurate dogs alive have never been in a competition hunt. And they could not win in one at the upper level of this game.

Anyone that has done this 50 plus years probably didn't have slick trees in their vocabulary back then like it is today. I probably hunted 2 or 3 years before I heard someone mention that about a slick treeing dog. It was about catching coon and that is what you did. Then some of these flashy radical tree dogs showed up and you had something else to worry about. Slick Trees! People chose to have the flashy dog over the coon treeing dog. Yes, people chose that and that is why we are where we are today as a whole. But you don't have to have them today. The choice is yours. I might have to ask a breeder this. But if we replaced our dogs with more accurate dogs. We then also bred more accurate dogs. Then took the cage coon and coon scent away from the trainers. I think we might have more accurate dogs. But that is my thinking. But not as much fun. I say, lets just have fun as life is short. We didn't arrive today with the brightest lights ever to not search trees 20 or 30 minutes and get our money's worth out of our lights. Then the lights tells us the truth and we still pet our dogs because they tree so hard. Plus that light allowed you to take some flashy pictures of the dog treeing.

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses