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Breeding Thoughts

This made me curious and kind of goes against what I have read and heard...I listened to the Houndsman XP podcast and they were talking about breeding. This involves law enforcement K9s, but crosses over to hounds. In the podcast they talked about European vs US breeding. In Europe they breed talented dog to talented dog, bloodlines don’t matter as long as breed is the same, only ability to complete the job they are asked to complete. Almost all outcrossing, no kin to kin. In the particular example the cross they made, resulted in 80% success rate in the pups, twice.

Now us, in the US we seem to believe in line breeding and close crosses of the same family lines. From what I gather, 80% would be a heck of a cross according to what I have heard of in the coon hunting world.

So my topic of discussion is...should we be more worried about breeding skill to skill and not worry as much about ancestry, as long as both dam and sire are full blood? Or is continued line breeding the answer to producing consistent and successful pups?

My opinion from reading multiple books and other articles seemed to be line breeding to be the answer. However, hearing about that style has me thinking.

I breed skill to skill and I never breed a dog that can't tree it's own game. I'm old school and do not believe in close breeding. I've tried close bred dogs with terrible resuts. You couldn't give me a close bred pup now.

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If It Climbs, It Ain't Trash

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Line breeding works. The cattle industry along with the swine industry thrives on it. But they are breeding for tangible results. Coondhounds are a different story.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

quote:

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Originally posted by Al Medcalf
I breed skill to skill and I never breed a dog that can't tree it's own game. I'm old school and do not believe in close breeding. I've tried close bred dogs with terrible resuts. You couldn't give me a close bred pup now.

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I know the Europeans used to breed the very best to very best...I do not know how close they bred it the dogs usually looked like clones...and it used to be there was a warden that overseen the culling and grading the pups...

I believe in line breeding and inbreeding with some new blood now and then...and I also believe in breeding the very best to very best within the family...
Throwing away the rose colored glasses is the first thing to do if we want to breed better dogs...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Line breeding works. The cattle industry along with the swine industry thrives on it. But they are breeding for tangible results. Coondhounds are a different story.

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The cattle industry can also breed to get male or female offspring...years ago a ranch manger was telling me about the breeding knowledge in the cattle industry and that was over twenty years ago...

The reason they are so advanced as already mentioned is for profit and efficiency...making a profit while keeping the price reasonable for the average consumer...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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OHCOON. Everyone wants to line breed. Which works if you know what you are doing. But what is popular and our registries migrated to. Cross Bred Hounds. When the Cross Bred Hounds are winning more than some of the breeds established for 100 years. What does that say. Either they didn't want to breed hounds that could win. Or they just are not breeding hounds that live up to competition standards. I am not saying that competition hounds are a standard I want to follow at my age. But they are the standard that most coonhunters chase.

When you cross breed you are not matching family genetics to produce good dogs. You are breeding the better ones to the better ones. If you don't do that. You are just headed back to where we were 100 years ago.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Dogs

If all these expert's were so smart why is it so hard to find a good dog go figure.Ive line bred in dogs and livestock and just like coonhounds the livestock is a crap shoot its called hybrid vigor when you crossbred and outcross is where many good animals will show up these breeding posts are ridiculous with the bullchit written in them

I would hope either line breeding, or best-to-best breeding is not an either/or choice.

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Seeking Soli Deo Gloria through the hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by houndsound
I would hope either line breeding, or best-to-best breeding is not an either/or choice.

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Beagles are line bred way heavier than coonhounds. The results speak for themselves. They know what there getting with their breeding in most cases. Coonhounds aren't even close to the same results.
I like competition hunting but I don't think it's a beneficial thing for our breeding near as much as people think. Maybe it is actually the reason we have not made much progress.

BONE COLLECTORE

BONE COLLECTORE

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Now this is where a lot of people go wrong. They either "just" linebreed or "just" breed best to best when they should be doing both. If you are linebreeding correctly, then you should be getting the best.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Now this is where a lot of people go wrong. They either "just" linebreed or "just" breed best to best when they should be doing both. If you are linebreeding correctly, then you should be getting the best.

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__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

x2

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Beagles are line bred way heavier than coonhounds. The results speak for themselves. They know what there getting with their breeding in most cases. Coonhounds aren't even close to the same results.
I like competition hunting but I don't think it's a beneficial thing for our breeding near as much as people think. Maybe it is actually the reason we have not made much progress.

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__________________
Always be yourself because the people that matter dont mind and the people that mind dont matter.Rock River Plotts

Re: Breeding Thoughts

quote:

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Originally posted by OHC00N
This made me curious and kind of goes against what I have read and heard...I listened to the Houndsman XP podcast and they were talking about breeding. This involves law enforcement K9s, but crosses over to hounds. In the podcast they talked about European vs US breeding. In Europe they breed talented dog to talented dog, bloodlines don’t matter as long as breed is the same, only ability to complete the job they are asked to complete. Almost all outcrossing, no kin to kin. In the particular example the cross they made, resulted in 80% success rate in the pups, twice.

Now us, in the US we seem to believe in line breeding and close crosses of the same family lines. From what I gather, 80% would be a heck of a cross according to what I have heard of in the coon hunting world.

So my topic of discussion is...should we be more worried about breeding skill to skill and not worry as much about ancestry, as long as both dam and sire are full blood? Or is continued line breeding the answer to producing consistent and successful pups?

My opinion from reading multiple books and other articles seemed to be line breeding to be the answer. However, hearing about that style has me thinking.

---

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Re: Breeding Thoughts

quote:

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Originally posted by OHC00N


So my topic of discussion is...should we be more worried about breeding skill to skill and not worry as much about ancestry, as long as both dam and sire are full blood? Or is continued line breeding the answer to producing consistent and successful pups?

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__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

The breeding and culture mindset in Europe is way beyond that of ours on the US. They can only register the dogs after they have passed health tests and performance tests. Just being born to a pair of registered parents does not allow them registration.
How many times have you seen or heard “My shepherd or Rottweiler is from German parents” ? People seek out German bred dogs because the breeding practices produce superior stock.
They may cull a whole litter or even generation of dogs for “faults” if you even talk about doing in America what they talk openly about in Europe, you would be arrested.

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Get deep or Get Beat!

Line breed or Outcross??

Here's my take on this subject. People line breed/family breed to keep the traits they like in a certain line. Problem is, they don't want to branch out to another line even if there are better dogs in said line, IMO. They seem to seek out the best in their chosen line instead of seeking out the best in the breed. This is called line blindness. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results isn't too bright, IMO. I believe it's true that we can stay within a certain line and have good results and continue to get coon treer's but can we get better coon treer's by staying on the same road? It's kinda' like wanting an 80 lb dog but continuing to breed two 40 lb dogs because you like them, chances are slim. I believe we have some very nice dogs within our chosen breed but will we be the one to go to them or stay at home where it's nice and comfy? Look closely to what you have on the end of your leash and ask yourself honestly if you can do getter? Until we come to terms with what we're hunting and being honest with ourselves, we can't move forward.