UKC Forums - TOC Finals

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-- TOC Finals (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928538381)

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-24-2021 06:11 PM:

TOC Finals

First I'd like to say what an outstanding job UKC did organizing and putting this on. It was an awesome venue and very professional!! Super glad I got to experience and be a part of it even though if was short lived. Looking forward to next year's already.

My cast last night was super interesting and I'd like opinions on that happens in the situation that happens in my cast.

3 dogs piled on a possum 2 minutes into the cast and were all 3 scratched. The 4fh dog got to hunt entire hunt alone and ended up misusing out getting scratched. Did tree 1 coon but had 2 blanks.

Who should be awarded the next round win when all 4 dogs were scratched? My only thought was it would have to go to the dog with the least minus since they were scratched. Under the tournament of champions rules it states in the event of a dead cast whatever dog made a scorable tree would get the money as the winner.

But my cast wasn't a dead cast all dogs were scratched. Please help me understand this

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Posted by Sonny Phipps on 04-24-2021 06:25 PM:

Must have plus points to advance?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-24-2021 06:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
Must have plus points to advance?

Correct but someone still gets the next round money without plus points Cady winner they just can't compete in the next round.

Posted by Sonny Phipps on 04-24-2021 06:49 PM:

I don’t know what that answer is. I just know plus points to advance. Maybe it is considered dead because the dog minused out?

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 04-24-2021 06:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Correct but someone still gets the next round money without plus points Cady winner they just can't compete in the next round.

I don't know they plan on handling it. In another KC they have divided up the next round $ between all dogs in the cast plus the earnings they would get for being there. I always thought they should just get the money they would have gotten for making it into that round and because no winner advanced that extra should be added to the ones that did or put into the youth fund. Jmo. Why should they get more than all the other losers.

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Posted by John B.Dalton on 04-24-2021 06:58 PM:

Sounds like a tough break..Winner would have advanced as soon as other three were scratched on off game when in the other kennel club..Ukc Has their set of rules for this hunt because its a UKC hunt as they should..This being a elimination style event they may tweek it for next year..Great coverage thus far and should be a great night tonight also..Kudos to all 64 that made it this far and the finalist hunting tonight..50 grand may not be a life changer for some but it sure helps in the pursuit of our hobby

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Posted by Paul Frederick on 04-24-2021 09:48 PM:

I don't know how UKC will rule, but I bet there will be more specific wording in the rules next year for the TOC in case an entire cast gets scratched. Probably something they didn't even think about happening this far into the event, but we all know the one thing you can predict in coonhunting is the unpredictability.

I have no say in the matter of course but in my opinion this is what should be done. Either, 1. All dogs on the cast get $1,000 like they got beat in this round or, 2. Take the $3,500 CW + $1,000 per cast loser ($3,000) and split between the four dogs.

The biggest con I see from option #2 is that each dog would receive more of a payout if they were on an entirely scratched cast instead of simply getting beat. I don't think that's necessarily fair, and I would probably push for option #1, but they ain't gonna ask me my opinion!

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-24-2021 10:05 PM:

It's a tough situation for sure and one ya hope not to encounter. But it happened unfortunately..

My thoughts are this. No matter if a dog is scratched 30 seconds in or with a minute left it can't be considered for placement. However if all dogs are scratched you have to go with UKC stance on tie breakers for the last many years and that's the dog with the least amount of minus.

The only flaw I see is if the entire cast was scratched for fighting. Then you'd have to probably have to revert to the highest combined scores from the previous round.

Posted by Jason Miller on 04-24-2021 11:14 PM:

The last dog scratched would be the winner, or I guess that would make the most sense to me..

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-24-2021 11:40 PM:

In almost all sporting events, the last dog out is the winner. When the 3 dogs were scratched, the 4th dog would be the cast winner. In this case I am sure that UKC will go over their rules for this event and come up with an intelligent decision as to who wins the money. Of course if the rules for this event say that you must have a total of plus points to advance then no dog will advance. But if the rules say that you must have plus points to advance, then the 4th dog could advance since it had plus points. Also do the rules say that a dog has to hunt the whole 2 hrs to be declared a winner? You would have to go over all of the rules for this event since they are different. I am sure that Mr Gingerich will do that.

On a side note, an awful lot of possums were treed last night.

Posted by high ridge on 04-25-2021 03:26 PM:

Last dog standing is the winner. The 3 that got scratched first are out, 4th dog wins.
Why would you split the money amongst all 4?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-25-2021 06:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by high ridge
Last dog standing is the winner. The 3 that got scratched first are out, 4th dog wins.
Why would you split the money amongst all 4?

Being scratched means just that. Being disqualified, doesn't matter if it happened 1 minute in or in the last minute.

Any dog failing to complete the entire 120 minutes should not "place"

Since all 4 dogs failed to complete hunt time money should be split or dog with the least minus. Absolutely only logical way to do it.

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 04-25-2021 11:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by high ridge
Last dog standing is the winner. The 3 that got scratched first are out, 4th dog wins.
Why would you split the money amongst all 4?

X2...nothing else makes sense

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Posted by Lone Pine JB on 04-25-2021 11:22 PM:

you stated that the rules say dog with scorable tree would get money.

your cast was a dead cast. a dead cast is where there is no plus points winner.

it's simple. quit trying to twist it.

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Posted by jkidd1 on 04-25-2021 11:28 PM:

The last dog standing, even though he minused out, he did treed a coon and a circle tree, those would count as the only legit trees made.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-25-2021 11:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Being scratched means just that. Being disqualified, doesn't matter if it happened 1 minute in or in the last minute.

Oh yes it does matter.....

Posted by Dave Richards on 04-26-2021 12:26 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh yes it does matter.....

X2, It definitely does matter. The last dog standing wins the cast period. He was the winner automatically when the other 3 dogs were scratched regardless of what he done the rest of the hunt. Dave

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Posted by wart on 04-26-2021 12:39 AM:

Dogs

I agree with Dave and Richard when the other 3 scratched out he wins but because of minus he can't go to the next round.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-26-2021 01:09 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh yes it does matter.....

So what if the 3 dog scratched right off and the 4th got scratched later in the cast for off game? By your logic because he lasted longer he's the winner? Lol

Posted by Dave Richards on 04-26-2021 01:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So what if the 3 dog scratched right off and the 4th got scratched later in the cast for off game? By your logic because he lasted longer he's the winner? Lol

Trevor, I think you are to close to the forest to see the trees.lol. Do not complicate the situation, it was as stated the last man standing equals the winner of the cast. Surely you do not believe that the 3 dogs that treed a possum deserve to split the pot. At least the 4th dog treed a coon something the other 3 dogs did not do. Dave

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-26-2021 02:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Trevor, I think you are to close to the forest to see the trees.lol. Do not complicate the situation, it was as stated the last man standing equals the winner of the cast. Surely you do not believe that the 3 dogs that treed a possum deserve to split the pot. At least the 4th dog treed a coon something the other 3 dogs did not do. Dave

I don't honestly believe if any dog gets scratched it should receive anything. However when there's money to be awarded someone has to get it in these types of events. I guess if the concept of last dog scratched is the answer then so be it.

Posted by Sonny Phipps on 04-26-2021 02:25 AM:

I didn’t even qualify one so you all did more then what I did. It will be interesting to see how it’s handled. I figured right off that none of them would get paid because none of them “won” the cast. During the year as everyone was winning the 5 casts they needed to qualify and this same scenario played out , no dogs would have got a cast win. Now this being a different format and such I can see why they may choose to pay the last dog standing.

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Posted by ov_blues on 04-26-2021 02:41 AM:

My opinion is that if one dog in the cast has to get paid more than the others even though it is a dead cast you have two options:

1. Last dog standing
OR
2. Revert to previous scores like UKC does for placement in their World Hunt.

What would have happened if a whole cast was scratched at the same time like all on off game or a multiple dog dog fight? In that case I’d say option 2 which if implemented would cover both the scenario in this cast or what I just asked.

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Posted by EKnipp on 04-26-2021 03:04 AM:

Break dog from treeing possum

Posted by wart on 04-26-2021 04:56 AM:

Dogs

According to Jeremy kidds post a dog with a tree that can be scored is the winner but like mr Phipps pointed out maybe all 4 dogs get 1000.00 instead of cast win money

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