UKC Forums - Rule?

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-27-2021 02:19 PM:

Rule?

3 dog cast
A And b strike in that order. A treed for 125 than dog c strikes in. Tree time expires ya get to the tree all 3 dogs are treeing same tree and it's slick. What are all 3 dogs scores?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-27-2021 02:27 PM:

Not enough info for B but A 225- and C 25-. If B was never treed in it gets 100-.

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-27-2021 03:24 PM:

B was not treed

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-27-2021 04:34 PM:

Nobody knows?

Posted by Trevor / UKC on 03-27-2021 04:42 PM:

Dog A - 225-
Dog B - 100- ... minus 75 strike, award 25 tree points by being treed but not declared treed when judge arrives and minus the 25 tree points since slick
Dog C - 25- ... shut out on strike so delete strike, award 25 tree points by being treed but not declared treed when judge arrives and minus the 25 tree points since slick

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-27-2021 05:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
Nobody knows?

I guess that I am a "nobody".

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-27-2021 05:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I guess that I am a "nobody".

thanks you got 2/3rds of it. Lol

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-27-2021 05:54 PM:

I asked this scenario at 3 separate clubs and none of the members understood what to do with the strike points on slick tree with a dog on before judge arrives if the dog wasn't treed in on.
Honestly it isn't clearly stated in the runs under minus tree points 4 - h the way it is worded is confusing to many.

I reckon because it is minus strike points but during a treeing situation and the answer is under ( tree minus) for a strike situation. If ya can follow me. Crazy

Posted by Rip on 03-27-2021 07:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
thanks you got 2/3rds of it. Lol

I believe he got all of it just did it out of order LOL.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-27-2021 08:48 PM:

I am always a little out of order.

Posted by houndsound on 03-27-2021 11:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I asked this scenario at 3 separate clubs and none of the members understood what to do with the strike points on slick tree with a dog on before judge arrives if the dog wasn't treed in on.
Honestly it isn't clearly stated in the runs under minus tree points 4 - h the way it is worded is confusing to many.

I reckon because it is minus strike points but during a treeing situation and the answer is under ( tree minus) for a strike situation. If ya can follow me. Crazy

Every time I get geared up thinking night hunts would be fun I read a post like this and re-think it. I've read through the rules quite a few times.... just haven't had exposure to see them applied in hunts enough. It all seems really really really confusing. From a newcomer to hunts... the rules are not user friendly, and don't make sense how they are laid out.

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Posted by benderb4 on 03-28-2021 06:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by houndsound
Every time I get geared up thinking night hunts would be fun I read a post like this and re-think it. I've read through the rules quite a few times.... just haven't had exposure to see them applied in hunts enough. It all seems really really really confusing. From a newcomer to hunts... the rules are not user friendly, and don't make sense how they are laid out.

Your right.
Rules were written years ago to determine who had the best dog.
Now they keep changing and evolving to cause a body whiplash trying to keep up with changes that help sharp handlers.
New comers don't stand a chance without knowing the little catch 22's of every rule.
What ever happened to just striking ang them as you hear them?
How dare your dog not get to a tree in under three minutes? Big deal. Just don't get any points

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Posted by shadinc on 03-28-2021 10:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Trevor / UKC
Dog A - 225-
Dog B - 100- ... minus 75 strike, award 25 tree points by being treed but not declared treed when judge arrives and minus the 25 tree points since slick
Dog C - 25- ... shut out on strike so delete strike, award 25 tree points by being treed but not declared treed when judge arrives and minus the 25 tree points since slick

What don't you like about this correct answer?

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Posted by benderb4 on 03-28-2021 11:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
What don't you like about this correct answer?

If you are asking me ,I agree 100% according to rules.
Most people as this post implied at the start does not either understand or get it.
What happened to striking your dog when struck .Treeing your dog when treed . And at end of night best dog wins. Off game, slick trees. quitting tracks Still can minus them for mistakes.
The best strike and tree dogs are still going to win.

The rules are getting too technical .

Same reason why a novice can't be handed a scorecard on a hunt cast they can't find a judge for. And if you been to many of late you should notice it gets more difficult every year.
Just look at the arguments over questions on this board....Many don't understand the rules as written..Even licensed MOH getting them wrong

this is the problem I was referring to is the "micro" managing of strike and tree points and scoring situations in today's hunts as say 20 years ago.

Allow silent trailers but want to penalize open trailers that mouth too much based on cast members opinions.

If a dog comes to a tree after a judge on slicks or off game they get a pass but if never treed and are on the tree when judge gets there they get minus tree points assigned .

Calling time out between split trees . And when you can or can't

Trying to keep time on split trees and when you don't have to.

When you can or can't question calls in later in front of MOH that are mis-application of rules but you can't question if it is a situational call you disagree with.

The knowing of deleting points in one situation but circled in another'
deleting, circling, or minus of trees depending on
2-1-1 votes 2-2 votes on slick trees,circle tree, minus verses circle trees

How about that wonderful under the umbrella of the tree rule??? WHAT ! Where ?? No such rule exists but i would venture 50 % of guys have applied it at one time or another

Minus a dog at a previous scored treed in one situation but not another . Depending on if you treed your dog again ??

Holes? Well let's see. if you treed it better be there if you didn't general vicinity .

Another good one. If dogs are in a hole but can't make contact with the coon plus those tree points up... but if they make contact? Sorry delete those tree points

Rule situations a hunting judge has sole discretion on the ruling yet others are cast decisions that must be voted .

Another new goodie. If a dog is on a leash and gets into an all out blood rolling fight with a dog not leashed .One on leash is good to go but one off leash is scratched.. Real head scratcher there.

Dog can face bark all night at every tree ...and gets a pass until it actually runs another dog around the tree " because now it is Interfering"...

Enough to make a fellas head spin that knows the rules let alone a newbie.

I don't like the stationary rule... I know when my dog is or isn't treed yet we got a guy judging my dog saying it is treed and then treeing it for me???

New count down rule is to penalize the dogs that are a little slow getting on the tree or a slick new rule for the 1000 yard dogs to beat you .
Well really if they are that slow to cover ,why worry about them . They aren't good enough to beat you any way.

Posted by shadinc on 03-29-2021 01:22 AM:

Bender, I wasn't referring to you.

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Posted by ruttinbuck on 03-29-2021 02:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by houndsound
Every time I get geared up thinking night hunts would be fun I read a post like this and re-think it. I've read through the rules quite a few times.... just haven't had exposure to see them applied in hunts enough. It all seems really really really confusing. From a newcomer to hunts... the rules are not user friendly, and don't make sense how they are laid out.

I’m with you on this one Buddy . I listened to a podcast awhile back that explained some of the rules it helped me understand . I think it was houndsman xp podcast .

Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-29-2021 02:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by benderb4
If you are asking me ,I agree 100% according to rules.
Most people as this post implied at the start does not either understand or get it.
What happened to striking your dog when struck .Treeing your dog when treed . And at end of night best dog wins. Off game, slick trees. quitting tracks Still can minus them for mistakes.
The best strike and tree dogs are still going to win.

The rules are getting too technical .

Same reason why a novice can't be handed a scorecard on a hunt cast they can't find a judge for. And if you been to many of late you should notice it gets more difficult every year.
Just look at the arguments over questions on this board....Many don't understand the rules as written..Even licensed MOH getting them wrong

this is the problem I was referring to is the "micro" managing of strike and tree points and scoring situations in today's hunts as say 20 years ago.

Allow silent trailers but want to penalize open trailers that mouth too much based on cast members opinions.

If a dog comes to a tree after a judge on slicks or off game they get a pass but if never treed and are on the tree when judge gets there they get minus tree points assigned .

Calling time out between split trees . And when you can or can't

Trying to keep time on split trees and when you don't have to.

When you can or can't question calls in later in front of MOH that are mis-application of rules but you can't question if it is a situational call you disagree with.

The knowing of deleting points in one situation but circled in another'
deleting, circling, or minus of trees depending on
2-1-1 votes 2-2 votes on slick trees,circle tree, minus verses circle trees

How about that wonderful under the umbrella of the tree rule??? WHAT ! Where ?? No such rule exists but i would venture 50 % of guys have applied it at one time or another

Minus a dog at a previous scored treed in one situation but not another . Depending on if you treed your dog again ??

Holes? Well let's see. if you treed it better be there if you didn't general vicinity .

Another good one. If dogs are in a hole but can't make contact with the coon plus those tree points up... but if they make contact? Sorry delete those tree points

Rule situations a hunting judge has sole discretion on the ruling yet others are cast decisions that must be voted .

Another new goodie. If a dog is on a leash and gets into an all out blood rolling fight with a dog not leashed .One on leash is good to go but one off leash is scratched.. Real head scratcher there.

Dog can face bark all night at every tree ...and gets a pass until it actually runs another dog around the tree " because now it is Interfering"...

Enough to make a fellas head spin that knows the rules let alone a newbie.

I don't like the stationary rule... I know when my dog is or isn't treed yet we got a guy judging my dog saying it is treed and then treeing it for me???

New count down rule is to penalize the dogs that are a little slow getting on the tree or a slick new rule for the 1000 yard dogs to beat you .
Well really if they are that slow to cover ,why worry about them . They aren't good enough to beat you any way.

Whew...... all that will really confuse a newcomer. Haha.

Posted by Daniel Fitzko on 03-29-2021 03:05 PM:

Dog A - 225-
Dog B- Delete if its at the tree and not treeing
Dog C- Delete Strike since tree is dead and nothing seen

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-29-2021 03:49 PM:

A newcomer is not going to know all of the rules or interpretations in any sport. That is part of being a newcomer. You learn as you go. A handler that has hunted in 5 or 10 hunts is not going to know as much as one that has been hunting 5 or 10 years. That doesn't mean that someone shouldn't enter a hunt. But if you are unsure, then spectate on a few hunts and see for yourself what is going on. You sure aren't going to experience it on the interweb. There are 100 casts going on every weekend but you only see one or two questions come up on the interweb a month.

Posted by benderb4 on 03-29-2021 04:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
A newcomer is not going to know all of the rules or interpretations in any sport. That is part of being a newcomer. You learn as you go. A handler that has hunted in 5 or 10 hunts is not going to know as much as one that has been hunting 5 or 10 years. That doesn't mean that someone shouldn't enter a hunt. But if you are unsure, then spectate on a few hunts and see for yourself what is going on. You sure aren't going to experience it on the interweb. There are 100 casts going on every weekend but you only see one or two questions come up on the interweb a month.

But the rules should not be so intimidating. So technical that a new Nite hunter that has read and memorized the rules should not feel afraid to take the score card in hand when it is needed .
Experience is the best teacher.
Yet time after time I have seen the fear in the younger guys when they are asked to judge

Posted by griff on 03-30-2021 03:33 AM:

Whacked

Wow. In the late 70’s-early 80’s i was a member of the rural Greenwich coonhunters club. Went on Dozens of casts in ACHA hunts. Maybe it was more about the dog back then. Called them struck, called them treed, in order. See what they got when you get to the tree, minus them on their mistakes.

I am wanting a dog that can win a comp hunt even if i never enter one. I am beginning to realize i have not been “into” coondogs for some time. I guess I’m wanting a dog that can excel in the competition hunts and against the dogs i remember in my mind.

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