UKC Forums - Independent???

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-- Independent??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928533260)

Posted by Ryan Karl on 10-03-2020 04:46 AM:

Independent???

Which blue dog is consistently throwing independence in their pups?

__________________
Ryan Karl
254-231-6229
CowboyKarl1@Gmail.com
Milano, Tx

Nitech CH Nolan Creek Pride
Nolan Creek Joy

R.I.P.

Grnitech Grch pr Nolan Creek Prides Maverick HTX 3

Posted by southernthunder on 10-04-2020 03:57 PM:

anything Hamlin breed. Crocket was the most natural reproducer of independence I've ever seen, but we have seen it in his offspring too. the crosses made on Northern Blue hounds definitely intensified the trait. most hounds aren't truly independent and get man made. that kind will never produce what it isn't. whenever you get the chance come hunt with us and we can cut as many hounds as you want and you will see that they all go do their own thing. I'm not opposed to cutting 6 or 8 at the same time as long as you will help me gather them up lol.

__________________
Eddie Harp
918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels

HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
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Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

Posted by Ryan Karl on 10-05-2020 04:35 AM:

Appreciate the response, can’t find an offer like that very often. I need to try to make up there sometime end of the yr or early 2021. I’ll gladly help collect dogs as long as they aren’t on top of each other on a sapling lol. Sounds like a good time.

__________________
Ryan Karl
254-231-6229
CowboyKarl1@Gmail.com
Milano, Tx

Nitech CH Nolan Creek Pride
Nolan Creek Joy

R.I.P.

Grnitech Grch pr Nolan Creek Prides Maverick HTX 3

Posted by southernthunder on 10-08-2020 03:52 PM:

yes come on up when you get the chance and we will hunt them. we seriously will only cut them 2 at a time though, but will hunt Whip, Highball, Mike, Grace, Candy, Misty, and some of the pups if you want also. turning more than 2 loose at a time would take all night to collect them and might even get one of them ran over. you will see that they are super independent and like to do their own thing. you will also see that they won't cover or me too with anything. its a completely natural trait that they have. maybe when Danny comes down to hunt with us and brings Woodrow and his pup you can see that they are the same way also. most people don't know how to deal with hounds that are naturally independent and give up on them because they won't pack up and me too with the other hounds. they have to be handled differently and it sometimes takes more time or individual hunting than most are accustomed too. the end result is what matters most to me. its not how they start its how they finish.

Posted by Heikki on 10-08-2020 07:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
yes come on up when you get the chance and we will hunt them. we seriously will only cut them 2 at a time though, but will hunt Whip, Highball, Mike, Grace, Candy, Misty, and some of the pups if you want also. turning more than 2 loose at a time would take all night to collect them and might even get one of them ran over. you will see that they are super independent and like to do their own thing. you will also see that they won't cover or me too with anything. its a completely natural trait that they have. maybe when Danny comes down to hunt with us and brings Woodrow and his pup you can see that they are the same way also. most people don't know how to deal with hounds that are naturally independent and give up on them because they won't pack up and me too with the other hounds. they have to be handled differently and it sometimes takes more time or individual hunting than most are accustomed too. the end result is what matters most to me. its not how they start its how they finish.

What is so hard about dealing with a independent hound? What don’t most people understand about it? How in the hell do they need to be handled so differently? Are you saying that just you & a hand full of others are the only ones that know how to do this? That statement seems pretty ignorant to me, but maybe I just don’t know how to deal with one!

__________________
Heikki Yeager
(304-905-3585)

NtCh Yeager’s Poison Ivy
PKC CH The Midnight Toker
2023 Spring SS Freshman Champion

Posted by southernthunder on 10-08-2020 08:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Heikki
What is so hard about dealing with a independent hound? What don’t most people understand about it? How in the hell do they need to be handled so differently? Are you saying that just you & a hand full of others are the only ones that know how to do this? That statement seems pretty ignorant to me, but maybe I just don’t know how to deal with one!

no need in getting bent out of shape. all you had to do is simply ask and I would explain. we have had many folks buy pups and hounds from us that wouldn't pack with their other hounds. when starting a pup that is truly independent it can be frustrating to someone who has never had an independent hound. most expect a pup to follow the older hound and get treed with them. independent hounds go their own way and do their own thing which at times makes the training process slower. this is where people give up because they dont understand how the hound operates due to being used to having pack hounds. simple really but lots of folks dont have the patience for it. our hounds also make it difficult because they air scent coon and will be a tree over where the thermal air scent is best and miss the tree until they get more experienced and better with age. like I stated above it's not how they start it's how they finish. my phone number is 918-448-7321 if you have anymore questions I'd be glad to talk

Posted by Brady bean on 10-08-2020 11:56 PM:

**** it Heikki.. u got a lot to learn!!

Posted by Heikki on 10-09-2020 12:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brady bean
**** it Heikki.. u got a lot to learn!!

Lol I guess I do..

__________________
Heikki Yeager
(304-905-3585)

NtCh Yeager’s Poison Ivy
PKC CH The Midnight Toker
2023 Spring SS Freshman Champion

Posted by Heikki on 10-09-2020 12:25 AM:

Eddie

Wasn’t getting bent outta shape at all, I have a female that is the definition of a dead loner. She has been in several hunts UKC & PKC, I have never seen her go in the same direction as another dog let alone with one. So I just didn’t understand your comment. She was a absolute natural independent dog from the time I started her. Thanks for the response

__________________
Heikki Yeager
(304-905-3585)

NtCh Yeager’s Poison Ivy
PKC CH The Midnight Toker
2023 Spring SS Freshman Champion

Posted by southernthunder on 10-09-2020 01:16 AM:

Re: Eddie

quote:
Originally posted by Heikki
Wasn’t getting bent outta shape at all, I have a female that is the definition of a dead loner. She has been in several hunts UKC & PKC, I have never seen her go in the same direction as another dog let alone with one. So I just didn’t understand your comment. She was a absolute natural independent dog from the time I started her. Thanks for the response

I wasn't sure when you said "how in the hell" made me think you were mad. no harm no foul. I'm glad you have a nice independent hound and wish you lots of success.

Posted by Danny Glista on 10-09-2020 06:03 PM:

Jmo!

If you truly want an independent hound, best be sure the female has it first off. That's been my experience over the years. Again, JMO!! Seen it a lot and seen the results over the last 50 plus years! Without her having it up front in her genes, not gonna happen very often. Best you can do is hope and poke! Danny G.

__________________
Danny G

Posted by Ryan Karl on 10-09-2020 07:20 PM:

Thread is turning out better than expected. I agree with you Danny, I don’t believe in putting all my faith in the stud dog.

__________________
Ryan Karl
254-231-6229
CowboyKarl1@Gmail.com
Milano, Tx

Nitech CH Nolan Creek Pride
Nolan Creek Joy

R.I.P.

Grnitech Grch pr Nolan Creek Prides Maverick HTX 3

Posted by southernthunder on 10-09-2020 07:47 PM:

I also agree for the most part. it takes 2 to make pups for sure but there are hounds that dominate traits no matter what. Crocket got his from his mother for sure, but is passing it on every litter. genetics teach that their pups get the genes from the grandparents so there you have it. I know that I doubled down on this trait when we crossed Crocket x Punkin. both sides are independent. Punkin came from Piazon x Allice.

Posted by Ryan Karl on 10-09-2020 09:10 PM:

Eddie you are dead right on the crocket/punkin cross. Everything should just about be dead loners from that.

__________________
Ryan Karl
254-231-6229
CowboyKarl1@Gmail.com
Milano, Tx

Nitech CH Nolan Creek Pride
Nolan Creek Joy

R.I.P.

Grnitech Grch pr Nolan Creek Prides Maverick HTX 3

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 10-09-2020 09:51 PM:

Independent

If you don't mind Mr Karl please define what you mean by independent. I've seen different degrees of independence in different dogs. But before giving my opinion would like to know what degree you are looking for.

Posted by Ryan Karl on 10-09-2020 10:46 PM:

A true dead independent hound will not back another dog on track or tree. Will not pull him off a tree with another hound. That’s just my opinion. Independent hound will run a track beside another hound but will not back a dog. The hound does not care about any other hound at all.

__________________
Ryan Karl
254-231-6229
CowboyKarl1@Gmail.com
Milano, Tx

Nitech CH Nolan Creek Pride
Nolan Creek Joy

R.I.P.

Grnitech Grch pr Nolan Creek Prides Maverick HTX 3

Posted by Ryan Karl on 10-09-2020 10:53 PM:

I’m not looking for litters of dead loners.

__________________
Ryan Karl
254-231-6229
CowboyKarl1@Gmail.com
Milano, Tx

Nitech CH Nolan Creek Pride
Nolan Creek Joy

R.I.P.

Grnitech Grch pr Nolan Creek Prides Maverick HTX 3

Posted by Jriley83 on 10-11-2020 12:00 AM:

Punkin

Who owns the punkin female?

Posted by southernthunder on 10-11-2020 12:11 AM:

Re: Punkin

quote:
Originally posted by Jriley83
Who owns the punkin female?

Mike Sheppard

Posted by Vic Stoll on 10-11-2020 12:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Karl
A true dead independent hound will not back another dog on track or tree. Will not pull him off a tree with another hound. That’s just my opinion. Independent hound will run a track beside another hound but will not back a dog. The hound does not care about any other hound at all.

Will this hound you describe stay treed if another dog covers it?

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Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

Posted by gcblues on 10-11-2020 04:29 AM:

Loner

Will this hound you describe stay treed if another dog covers it?

My experience they’ll stay if it’s their tree . I have two females like that. In thin coon and rough terrain it frustrates me at times. Makes me turn one at a time unless I have plenty of time.

__________________
Wayne O

Posted by Vic Stoll on 10-11-2020 02:41 PM:

Re: Loner

quote:
Originally posted by gcblues
Will this hound you describe stay treed if another dog covers it?

My experience they’ll stay if it’s their tree . I have two females like that. In thin coon and rough terrain it frustrates me at times. Makes me turn one at a time unless I have plenty of time.

The reason I asked, around 15 years ago I owned one that was a dead loner. That sucker would leave his tree if another dog came in and covered him. Would hold all the pressure in the world, but absolutely never did tree with another dog, even when he made the tree. I’d say he was probably an exception, but his type of independence I feel was driven by quirkiness or social dysfunction as some say. From my limited experience, the ones that just do their own thing every time you cast them and are unaffected by other dogs around them sure don’t come in bunches, nor are they commonly reproduced. If any gyp/stud threw this trait in 1/4 of every litter they had regardless of the other dog mated with, their owner would be extremely fortunate.

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 10-11-2020 03:33 PM:

Banjo x salt creek hugger

quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Karl
A true dead independent hound will not back another dog on track or tree. Will not pull him off a tree with another hound. That’s just my opinion. Independent hound will run a track beside another hound but will not back a dog. The hound does not care about any other hound at all.

Had one out of that cross that fit that bill while I was hunting him. Didn't suit me. If another dog beat him to the tree by a bark he'd move on and run another regardless. He could have carried the track the most and a dog pick the tree just ahead and nope gone. And usually in a big way. He was accurate but if he treed it's because he was there first. I sold him. Don't know if he came out of it or not. Plenty of people would love a dog like that but to me it's trash. If a dog opens it should put an end on that track regardless. Not run off because another dog treed a second before it. JMO. Everyone likes what they like and plenty of different traits to choose from.

Posted by Ryan Karl on 10-12-2020 04:56 AM:

I would consider a hound “independent to a fault” that leaves when covered. I never want a hound to leave a tree for any reason.

__________________
Ryan Karl
254-231-6229
CowboyKarl1@Gmail.com
Milano, Tx

Nitech CH Nolan Creek Pride
Nolan Creek Joy

R.I.P.

Grnitech Grch pr Nolan Creek Prides Maverick HTX 3

Posted by Surveyor on 10-12-2020 02:00 PM:

The one that I'm obviously most familiar with is Piazon. Like himself, he threw a high percentage of pups that were naturally independent and payed little to no mind of what the dogs around them were doing. I can't think of seeing him or any of his offspring leave because another dog covered them, though I did own a litter mate brother to Piazon I appropriately named Loner that sometimes would. I once had a guy pull me aside on a cast one night while hunting my Abbie female and say tell me the truth do you have something stuffed in her ears so she can't hear other dogs lol. There is a young dog out of Goomba (a Piazon son) named Brutus that is carrying on the family natural independence characteristic . It's a trait I personally can't go to a hunt without. I could take no pride in winning a cast because my dog went along with someone else's and backed them on coon they treed.

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Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
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