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-- Independent or pack (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928531612)

Independent or pack

This is always a strong topic. From starting a pup clean threw to a finished hound.
Let's have a little conversation about how some want to train a pup, started or even finished hounds to get the results that work for your own personal preference.
For me I let the dogs genetics decide to what degree the dogs independence will be for the most part. I don't try to keep them from other dogs but I also hunt them enough alone that there confident treeing coon solo. I have also never felt hunting a dog alone all the time makes them independent as some claim.

I am selective until I find an individual that is indifferent enough to excell consistently ahead of the pack or within the pack. But not a social outcast. All this with nothing but very little correction from me.



I they don’t show me that they don’t live hear.


Tar

If they are complete dead loner's that used to be considered independent to a fault.. Was a trait breeders culled out as a practice.

That type of dog blows up a hunt and creates a lot of unnecessary walking and made them hard to find many times during and after a hunt (this was pre tracking collar unit).

With the advent of money hunts and trainers figuring out how to build the best score card dog, the independent to a fault dog became the hound of choice. further ones who would still cover were conditioned with the E collar to not cover..

Personally I don't mind if dog's are working together and tree together.. It's what they should do.. However I do not want my dog to pack a suit case and follow another dog through the woods and back.. Won't own one like that.. I like mine to work with the other dogs if they strike together, otherwise I want him looking for his own.. And if he's alone I want him to tree, hold pressure and recast away from treed dogs..

A dog that will not ever tree with other dogs is a poor pleasure hound, might be just the ticket for the score card, but it's not for me..

My .02 worth.

JMO

Where I live {Very Southern Mi.} I don't want my hound packing.There are plenty of coon and they better go find their own.Hot one struck together or winded off the leash,I'm ok with too.

IF.....I lived in thin coon I'd prob want more pack......Not full out 'Me too',leave a track to pack/back.If they got their own track going,finish it.I've hunted with enough brush busting me too dogs to know I don't want one.Yes,they were 99% Blueticks....lol

__________________
Grnitech Pkc ch Skuna River Midnite Moe - RIP
{Skuna River Bark x Trackman's Sassy}

Nitech Stylish Clover Shark Jill - RIP 'Ole Girl
{Great White Shark x Brush Creek Patch}

I've hunted with some of the dogs like your talking about Larry. The man made loaners. What a pain in the but. 1 dog makes a bark and they left the woods out across open ground looking for a new woods so they didn't get hot around the collar. Amazed me some one could enjoy a dog like that.

Re: JMO

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Originally posted by 4play
Where I live {Very Southern Mi.} I don't want my hound packing.There are plenty of coon and they better go find their own.Hot one struck together or winded off the leash,I'm ok with too.

IF.....I lived in thin coon I'd prob want more pack......Not full out 'Me too',leave a track to pack/back.If they got their own track going,finish it.I've hunted with enough brush busting me too dogs to know I don't want one.Yes,they were 99% Blueticks....lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I am selective until I find an individual that is indifferent enough to excell consistently ahead of the pack or within the pack. But not a social outcast. All this with nothing but very little correction from me.



I they don’t show me that they don’t live hear.


Tar

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__________________
Wayne Musgrave

Home of:
A couple old plugs

Tar's definition sums it up well I think.. Same type of dog I am looking for.. some nights I have it, some nights, sigh.... LOL..

Pam - I drew one of the hottest winning $kc dogs at a UKC hunt this spring.. We cut together in a four dog cast..

$KC dog had second strike first tree on a coon.. Other two dogs covered him.. My dog went left handed and treed a few hundred yards away (after his dumb butt handler drew minus on him, but that's another story).. We scored the $KC dogs tree.. had a coon, plus him up..

we recut, headed in and scored my tree.. Beech den.. circle up.. We walk up to the edge of the field to recast mine.. $KC handler asks us if we can hear that dog? Faintly in the distance we can hear a dog treed.. He trees him.. I ask him do you mind telling me how far he is? 1.14 was the reply.. That cotton picker left about 8o acres of creek bottom and cornfield timber and ran across a mile of open fields, crossed a road and fell treed.. I respectfully withdrew at that point and said I'll see you boys at the club house.. Was a good cast, great dog work, just not my kind of dog work..

That dog won the cast handily and did it treeing coons.. But I want nothing to do with hunting a dog like that.. I'm sure we could have treed several coons in the timber in front of us.. Even if i'd not taken my self inflicted minus on the first tree by the time we walked 1.14 in and out in an hour cast no way I could beat him most likely.. And I'm not walking 2.28 miles to look at a tree and get back to my dog.. No way.. Too old and fat for that..

I've got friends that love that type, each to his own.. I'd caution everyone to hunt with any of the big time winners they are thinking about breeding to.. Not to hijack your thread, but wanted to share that independent loner story..

I am a social outcast, I want my dog to be one as well. Solo human, solo dog....best type of hunting there is.

__________________
Sam fox
PKC, the place to be.

Re: Re: JMO

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
not to bust on you but trying to get a understanding. I take it you have to train some independence to get what works for you?

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__________________
Grnitech Pkc ch Skuna River Midnite Moe - RIP
{Skuna River Bark x Trackman's Sassy}

Nitech Stylish Clover Shark Jill - RIP 'Ole Girl
{Great White Shark x Brush Creek Patch}

Back in the 50's and 60's I would never have got hooked on coon hunting if the hunters had wanted to hunt solo and just one dog. Back then friends hunted together with 3-5 dogs most nights. It was the atmosphere of being with those men as well as the thrill of a good hound coming treed that got me started and keeps me at 60 years later. I do hunt mostly by myself now because I no longer have a buddy that lives close to me. We have coon hunters but, with a lot wanting to hunt their dog solo, not too many to go with regular and I really miss that part.

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Tom Wood

Tom wood I'll 2nd that. It's going to hurt our sport in the long run.

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Back in the 50's and 60's I would never have got hooked on coon hunting if the hunters had wanted to hunt solo and just one dog. Back then friends hunted together with 3-5 dogs most nights. It was the atmosphere of being with those men as well as the thrill of a good hound coming treed that got me started and keeps me at 60 years later. I do hunt mostly by myself now because I no longer have a buddy that lives close to me. We have coon hunters but, with a lot wanting to hunt their dog solo, not too many to go with regular and I really miss that part.

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I always hunt one dog at a time, my experience on hunting a pack is there’s lots of room for trouble lol

__________________
Jesus saves!

We conditioned our dogs alone during the week then once in a while take them with a problem dog for a test. But in the hunts you drew a pack they didn’t run from the rest because either they were taught to or were non competitive. You picked dogs that the tuffer the competition the more they excelled.


Tar

If they're gonna pack they better be leading the pack. I won't hunt one that's not consistently treed first nor will I hunt one that won't tree unless it's first.

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Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
If they're gonna pack they better be leading the pack. I won't hunt one that's not consistently treed first nor will I hunt one that won't tree unless it's first.

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Originally posted by yadkintar
It’s not that hard of a concept. Race horses are conditioned to win there may be 10 horses come out of the starting gate the one that hits the finish line first is the winner but if he gets outrun he don’t stop and go the other way he crosses the finish line with the rest.


Tar

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__________________
Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
Right. And if he gets outrun very often he's removed from the races and the gene pool.

What a concept !

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
It’s not that hard of a concept. Race horses are conditioned to win there may be 10 horses come out of the starting gate the one that hits the finish line first is the winner but if he gets outrun he don’t stop and go the other way he crosses the finish line with the rest.


Tar

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__________________
It's all about preventative judging and situational handling that keeps you out of trouble.
Owner of TIER 1 CUSTOM CALLS
POWERED BY PURINA

Team Mafia
2022 UKC World Champion
2019-2022 UKC World Qualifier
2019 Ok Prohunt Semi-finalist
2019 Spring SS Top 20
20,21, and 23 OK State PKC Champion
2020 Spring SS Top 7
2019-2023 PKC National Qualifier
2020-2023 TOC Qualifier
2020 UKC Top 100
2022 UKC Top 100
2023 JOY Super Hunt Champion
2022 UKC WORLDCH PKC PCH CH GRNTCH3 "Get Gone Jenna"
DOB- 9/30/2017

quote:

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Originally posted by TylerOSU
Pack hounds are the democrats of coondogs...

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__________________
Grnitech Pkc ch Skuna River Midnite Moe - RIP
{Skuna River Bark x Trackman's Sassy}

Nitech Stylish Clover Shark Jill - RIP 'Ole Girl
{Great White Shark x Brush Creek Patch}

Dogs

The good ones separate themselves from the common ones because of natural talent they don't need to be whipped,beaten ,shocked etc .A common dog is the same regardless if it is man made

quote:

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Originally posted by TylerOSU
In horse racing the ones that cross the finish like in 2-4 don't get part of the same pot of the horse that crossed first does it? Pack hounds are the democrats of coondogs...

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They talk that smack !

But now days they split in the finals of many $$$ hunts instead of hunting it off and finding out who really has the bop bop baloobop ba boom bang boom lol.



Tar

Re: They talk that smack !

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
But now days they split in the finals of many $$$ hunts instead of hunting it off and finding out who really has the bop bop baloobop ba boom bang boom lol.



Tar

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__________________
It's all about preventative judging and situational handling that keeps you out of trouble.
Owner of TIER 1 CUSTOM CALLS
POWERED BY PURINA

Team Mafia
2022 UKC World Champion
2019-2022 UKC World Qualifier
2019 Ok Prohunt Semi-finalist
2019 Spring SS Top 20
20,21, and 23 OK State PKC Champion
2020 Spring SS Top 7
2019-2023 PKC National Qualifier
2020-2023 TOC Qualifier
2020 UKC Top 100
2022 UKC Top 100
2023 JOY Super Hunt Champion
2022 UKC WORLDCH PKC PCH CH GRNTCH3 "Get Gone Jenna"
DOB- 9/30/2017