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Hunting alone = better bred dogs

Looking back from the past hunting right threw till today's hunting. I have been thinking about how in the past almost everyone hunted with other people and often times there dogs as well. Pack hunting so to speak. While today many people hunt alone as well as there dogs.
In the past i don't feel in many cases some people new what kinda dog they had because they always just packed up and in many cases just hid the faults that many dogs had. Today with all the alone time most hounds and handlers have shouldn't they have a better idea just what kinda dog they are carrying? There for producing better dogs?
This is just something I have been rolling around in my mind awhile lately.

Pamjohnson

I think it takes a combination of hunting dogs alone by themselves and with other dogs to get a more ACCURATE picture of what the dog or dogs are doing both good and bad. By themselves, you really do not know if they missing coon tracks that other dogs might have struck you only get what you see. Another thing you can not see hunting a dog by themselves is how much tree pressure a dog can take or how accurate the dog is when other dogs are treeing slick trees. Hunting a dog by itself gives you the knowledge of knowing whether a dog will hunt by itself run and tree accurate by itself, but does cover up shortcomings the dog may have, that manifests itself when hunting the dog with other dogs. To be a TOP COON DOG a dog must prove it by hunting alone and with other dogs. Some dogs look great by themselves, some look great hunting with a pack, few look great doing both. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

I think to often years in the past many pack hunted so much that many dogs were never hunted alone to prove themselves and then was bred without the owner truly seeing that dogs true ability or short commings .

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
I think to often years in the past many pack hunted so much that many dogs were never hunted alone to prove themselves and then was bred without the owner truly seeing that dogs true ability or short commings .

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__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

As long as people are breeding to titles and you see term brood gyp there will always be a lesser hound than possible.

Some of them brood gyps got titles without leaving the pen.


Tar

Pamjohnson

Lol. Many years ago, it was very common for one man to hunt 3 to 4 dogs together every time he went hunting, 1 to strike the tracks, 1 to trail up tracks, and 1 to tree, it took a pack to do what 1 good dog does today. We have advanced in many ways only to fail in others. Dogs today have way too much tree in them, some to stupid to see there is no coon sitting on the little corn stalk they are treed on, good track dogs are getting rarer, and ghost coons have multiplied by the hundreds, seems every cast runs one these days. Balancing track dogs and tree dogs seems to be the major problem these days. Hide hunters hunted and wanted running dogs that would tree, competition hunters wanted tree dogs that would run and we ended up with more tree dogs that tree more than they run , right or wrong tree. Competition hunters call it gambling on a tree, I call it dead headed, the dig should know whether the coon is there or not and should not let a little scent over ride their brain and eyes. A good squirrel dog usually has the meat, using more than just it's nose, it takes brains. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Tar

Please say it isntttttttttttttttsoooooooooooooooand after all the big money generated by those all grand pedigrees, they at least should have had to earn their titles. DNA can't fix that problem. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Tar

The easy entry card for many a hound made more hunts than the dog ever did. Lol. Fact.

You boys keep dreaming that hounds were pack hunted more back in the day. A serious hide hunter and there were a bunch of them way back when didn’t hunt a pack of dogs and he didn’t hunt with company.

You can’t cut the fur check and make it work. Or at least you couldn’t when you were serious about it.

Coon dog was and is the measuring stick. These anti social loaners cannot compete or better said, will not compete head to head with a cast of dogs. Strike first and pull the track away and tree the coon first. They will quit the track, blow out of pocket and find a hot pop up. And folks will breed to that crap.

You want a coon dog or a score card dog?

Larry

I bought several of them without trying them don’t even know if it was their papers but that dog didn’t win that title and that’s a fact. I always hunted hides with a buddy we always skinned them as they treed them and one led the dogs the other carried the hides and the rifle and we would switch out and split the money in half.


It always worked out good for us.



Tar

Larry Hall

There was not any hide hunting in these parts , coons were to scarce. We hunted in Northern Indiania, Ohio, and Eastern Virginia on week long hunting trips. Prices if the hides paid for our expenses and we enjoyed the coon hunting. Coon hunting was and still is just a hobby for me, hide prices meant nothing but paying for your trip, gas, motel and eats, you can't put a price on a hobby or we would all quit. I had several friends that made lots if hunting trips to coon hunt and actually made decent money doing so, they were the dyed in the wool coon hunters, I had a good job and made good money working, they made more money from coon hunting than their jobs paid. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Some of us, and a bunch in this area were pretty serious. If we hunted together we alternated dogs and split the hides as you all mentioned but that was infrequent for most of us.

You hunted alone with your dog and cashed a check. Alternating dogs was common as you could gut one hunting him exclusively. I was blessed and always had a good job that turned into a career. But myself and many others turned a fair check every winter from our efforts.

I still hunt the same way. Coons are worth nothing but I sure hunt them like I used to, at least as much as my fat old butt can handle. Tree a lot more now though. We have unreal numbers up here.

Coon dog is always a coon dog. Score card dog isn’t always a coon dog.

The Easy Entry card from UKC created a huge pop in fraudulently titled dogs. Cell phone cameras have pretty much ended it I believe. I’m sure some still happens, but I think far less. There was a pretty tough old dog down the road here that allegedly made a good many of those all grand pedigrees folks bragged on so much.

Froze up and the hound is on the couch. We’ve softened up a bit I guess.

A while back I knew where three Grand Nights were that I wouldn't have hauled home. I mean they were sorry. I don't know how they got the titles but I know they weren't even close to being coon dogs.

Now about hunting alone, I am not a guy that thinks they need to be hunted by themselves all the time but I do think you really don't know if you've got a complete dog until you hunt them by themselves. I had a really nice B&T female 20+ years ago that had one fault. She just wouldn't hunt by herself. I really doubt that trying to hunt her by herself when she was 12 months old would have changed her. Other than that she was a really good dog and the others had to be really on their toes or she would have strike and tree on them.

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Tom Wood

We have lost track speed by always hunting them by themselves. Doesn't matter how fast the dog can run the track if it is always by itself it will always get first tree.

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Let's go huntin

I feel it is just as important to hunt a dog with other dogs as well as by itself. I just feel like back many years ago a lot of hunters, not all but many never hunted there dog by itself. In return they never really knew what there dog was and bred it without realizing it's faults. For instance I have seen some dogs that were poor track dogs alone but ya set them down with a pup that can track and they could look great. I have even had a neighbor who had 2 dogs that he always hunted them together and they both looked good but after 1 died the other was worthless.

Re: Larry Hall

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
There was not any hide hunting in these parts , coons were to scarce. We hunted in Northern Indiania, Ohio, and Eastern Virginia on week long hunting trips. Prices if the hides paid for our expenses and we enjoyed the coon hunting. Coon hunting was and still is just a hobby for me, hide prices meant nothing but paying for your trip, gas, motel and eats, you can't put a price on a hobby or we would all quit. I had several friends that made lots if hunting trips to coon hunt and actually made decent money doing so, they were the dyed in the wool coon hunters, I had a good job and made good money working, they made more money from coon hunting than their jobs paid. Dave

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Todays Dilemma

Could have said it better! The low fur price has produced a high coon population that helps the loner dogs of average ability to win big hunts.

Ron Moore

My first trip to northern Indiania to coon hunt was an eye opening experience. We were hunting with a man that lived up there and gave him all of the coons we treed, we just loved coon hunting and the opportunity to tree a bunch of coons. Everything was fine until the man started spot lighting and wanting to shoot coons that our dogs had not treed. I told him NO, that WE wered not going to shoot any coons that the dogs did not tree. He was more interested in the money the hide was worth than how the hide was taken. We treed a lot of coons and had a good time, but never let him shoot out coons he spot lighted. He took me stories of how they spotlighted around field of corn, banged on pots and pans to run the coons out if the corn fields , etc. Hide hunting did not appeal to me then, nor does it appeal to me now. 30 to 40 dollar hide prices bring out ALL the undesirable acts of sportsmanship I have ever seen. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Larry

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I bought several of them without trying them don’t even know if it was their papers but that dog didn’t win that title and that’s a fact.


Tar

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Nextcoonhunters

That's what every one likes to think, but down deep knows otherwise. Buckets have been the answer across the country and we now have countless bucket champions that are lost hunting in thin coons. In my opinion it's the worst thing to ever happen when everyone started hunting off feed buckets. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

If that's the case rename this thread "feeder buckets" = better bred dogs .....hmmmmmmm

My thoughts too

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Hall
Tar

The easy entry card for many a hound made more hunts than the dog ever did. Lol. Fact.

You boys keep dreaming that hounds were pack hunted more back in the day. A serious hide hunter and there were a bunch of them way back when didn’t hunt a pack of dogs and he didn’t hunt with company.

You can’t cut the fur check and make it work. Or at least you couldn’t when you were serious about it.

Coon dog was and is the measuring stick. These anti social loaners cannot compete or better said, will not compete head to head with a cast of dogs. Strike first and pull the track away and tree the coon first. They will quit the track, blow out of pocket and find a hot pop up. And folks will breed to that crap.

You want a coon dog or a score card dog?

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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
I think to often years in the past many pack hunted so much that many dogs were never hunted alone to prove themselves and then was bred without the owner truly seeing that dogs true ability or short commings .

---

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

I can remember back in the early 80's when hides were bringing good money.
Good big prime Northern boar coon fleshed and stretched right could bring as much as $50 at the fur auctions locally. I was glad to see those days go by the way side! For a few years we had guys coming in from the mid-west with campers and 10 to 15 cubic foot chest freezers in tow. They'd roll in for 2-3 weeks hunt all night and shoot everything they treed. Bunch of money hungry game hogs. Didn't matter to them they didn't live here. Glad to see those days are gone!

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Dan

Dan

Any real coon hunter that hunted for the love of the sport itself HATED the days of high coon hide prices. It was one thing for the average coon hunter to be able to pay his expenses from selling coon hides to the wanton killing of coons. Many coons were spot lighted, killing coons that were not treed by dogs, but taken by any means they could get them. High fur prices were the bane of a true coon hunter that enjoyed the sport hunting with dogs taking one coon per tree and leaving coons for seed. Hide hunting was done without regard of the population or how the coon was harvested. Personally, I hope hides never sell for enough to bring out the spot lighters or anyone not interested in the sport only the dollars that the hides will bring. A lot if money was spent in my area by coon clubs and coon hunters buying and stocking coons to build up a decent population. We have succeeded in establishing a decent population, but not one that could stand up to high prices and wanton killing by any means. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses