UKC Forums - Establishing value of TWC

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-04-2020 02:32 AM:

Establishing value of TWC

Hello,
I am hoping that someone here can help me. I recently lost my TWC due to a medical error. While they cannot actually replace my girl, the veterinarian is asking that I place a value on her, so they can pay for a comparable dog. I have no idea how to calculate this.

I am hoping that someone here can review her pedigrees and give me a guesstimate of what her value, at 2 years old with obedience training might be. Or, if there's a place I can go to get a value on her.

Thank you so much,
Jeanne

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 02-04-2020 03:16 AM:

Was your dog hunted or was it a pet?

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 02-04-2020 03:30 AM:

I have no idea how to value her as a pet. What I can tell you is that dogs from her bottom side that are titled hunting dogs have sold for 5 figures and even young started pups have sold for several thousand dollars. A replacement as a pup with comparable bloodlines will cost you between $400-$750. She is Super Stakes paid up and being only 2 years old should play into her value when you give an estimate.
Sorry for your loss.

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-04-2020 03:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Was your dog hunted or was it a pet?

She was not yet hunted. It was in the plans, but we hadn't taken her yet. But, she was trained obedience-wise and for living in the house. I'm thinking that, and having gotten through the first two years, which have always been the most challenging for me (puppy shenanigans) should also count as part of her value. I am utterly devastated, and I truly dont know how to even begin to put a price tag on her.

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-04-2020 03:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
I have no idea how to value her as a pet. What I can tell you is that dogs from her bottom side that are titled hunting dogs have sold for 5 figures and even young started pups have sold for several thousand dollars. A replacement as a pup with comparable bloodlines will cost you between $400-$750. She is Super Stakes paid up and being only 2 years old should play into her value when you give an estimate.
Sorry for your loss.

Thank you for the condolences. We are absolutely lost right now. The house is eerily quiet without her, and to be honest, it doesnt even feel safe anymore.

Do you have any thoughts on what an obedience & house-living trained two year old would be worth? By house-living I mean potty trained, broke from counter surfing, etc.

Again, thank you!

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 02-04-2020 04:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JeanneMeier
Thank you for the condolences. We are absolutely lost right now. The house is eerily quiet without her, and to be honest, it doesnt even feel safe anymore.

Do you have any thoughts on what an obedience & house-living trained two year old would be worth? By house-living I mean potty trained, broke from counter surfing, etc.

Again, thank you!

I completely understand it is hard to put a price on something that becomes a member of your family. Ours are hunting dogs but also part of our family. That in itself becomes priceless. If she had been hunted I could give you a quote on what I think she may be worth on that side of things. What I can tell you is that her grandsire Mafia was UKC's number one reproducer when we quit breeding him. We own 3 generations of these dogs, well now 2 as Mafia passed about a week and a half ago. You can look down our signature to see some of these dogs accomplishments on the hunting side.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 02-04-2020 05:36 AM:

If it were me this is what I would do...
Cost of a weaning puppy $500
Shipping the puppy to you $300
Registering the puppy in both kennels clubs and programs under 6 months old $154 (price is significantly more if older. For instance a 2 year old dog to pay up in SS as yours was would be $410 for pkc alone)
2 years of vaccinations and wellness exams.
2 years of wormer, heart worm prevention and tick and flea prevention.
Obedience training. The national average is $50 an hour.
2 years of any needed grooming.

Posted by Parkesridge on 02-05-2020 04:33 AM:

I'd check you state laws. Many states limit the value of dogs to the initial cost. I've been told that in my state this is recovery value. Other states vary. If they are asking you I'd give them a detailed account of what you spent: purchase price, registration, licensure, feeding, medical and meds, training. Being vets they should know there is a cost to raising a dog.

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-05-2020 06:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
[B]

Again, thank you for the information. Your post really gave me things to think about that I had not thought to include. I truly am thankful. I love the Mafia dogs. You've got great bloodlines!

Am also very sorry for your loss too.

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-05-2020 06:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Parkesridge
I'd check you state laws. Many states limit the value of dogs to the initial cost. I've been told that in my state this is recovery value. Other states vary. If they are asking you I'd give them a detailed account of what you spent: purchase price, registration, licensure, feeding, medical and meds, training. Being vets they should know there is a cost to raising a dog.

Right. I'm sure they have thought of some of the costs involved, but I don't think they will likely know the breed specific value.it's just so hard to assess a value in a case like this, and it's complicated by the fact that I had an amazing bloodline but didn't hunt her.

I am in Tennessee. Our law states that a claim like this is capped at the replacement value of the dog plus $500 punitive damages, unless it is gross negligence. I think this case meets the gross negligence threshold, (the vet failed to tie the internal sutures tight enough and then misdiagnosed the internal bleeding). But,, at the same time, I have to forgive them and see it for what it was - a genuine human error. I just want fair market value of my dog, so I can replace her with a similarly aged and trained dog.

I'm going to meet with them Thursday. I think I am going to ask for $2,500. I hope that that's in the ballpark.

I really appreciate all of the input.

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Posted by Olrebel on 02-05-2020 03:24 PM:

Problem is what led to the surgery? Most likely you signed a waiver and even if the vet made a mistake there not liable, sounds like your vet just wants to help you out so dont get greedy. Sory but what you have stated is not gross negligence. A diagnosis is just a idea and sometimes you win sometimes you dont, Veterinary medicine is just a practice and not a exact science, Sorry for your loss but there are plenty of dogs in shelters that would love to come live in your home. Best of luck.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 02-05-2020 03:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JeanneMeier
Right. I'm sure they have thought of some of the costs involved, but I don't think they will likely know the breed specific value.it's just so hard to assess a value in a case like this, and it's complicated by the fact that I had an amazing bloodline but didn't hunt her.

I am in Tennessee. Our law states that a claim like this is capped at the replacement value of the dog plus $500 punitive damages, unless it is gross negligence. I think this case meets the gross negligence threshold, (the vet failed to tie the internal sutures tight enough and then misdiagnosed the internal bleeding). But,, at the same time, I have to forgive them and see it for what it was - a genuine human error. I just want fair market value of my dog, so I can replace her with a similarly aged and trained dog.

I'm going to meet with them Thursday. I think I am going to ask for $2,500. I hope that that's in the ballpark.

I really appreciate all of the input.

That sounds fair to me

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-05-2020 04:35 PM:

Thank you!

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Posted by delta nightlife on 02-05-2020 07:14 PM:

Dog

What was wrong with the dog to warrant surgery

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-05-2020 07:29 PM:

Re: Dog

quote:
Originally posted by delta nightlife
What was wrong with the dog to warrant surgery

She went in for spay. They didn't tie the internal sutures tight enough, and she bled to death.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 02-05-2020 07:41 PM:

$2500 sounds fair to me.

Posted by high ridge on 02-06-2020 04:42 AM:

Sounds like the vet is trying to be fair by offering to pay. They could have used all kinds of excuses.

My opinion only.
2 years old, never hunted
Spayed
Obedience trained

Most on here wouldn�t give $200 for one like that.

$1000 would be fair for their mess up and not be bending them over for being honest.

The difficult part is separating emotional value from actual value.

Emotionally she could not be priced.
Actuality if you can get $1000 be happy.

Very sorry for your loss. It�s tough losing the ones you love.

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-06-2020 06:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Was your dog hunted or was it a pet?

She was a pet. Was going to start teaching her, but we hadn't yet. She was obedience trained though.

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Posted by CX3 on 02-06-2020 08:25 PM:

2500 fair enough. But I would definitely hate to try to replace mine for that....

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Posted by RatDog on 02-06-2020 10:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by high ridge
Sounds like the vet is trying to be fair by offering to pay. They could have used all kinds of excuses.

My opinion only.
2 years old, never hunted
Spayed
Obedience trained

Most on here wouldn�t give $200 for one like that.

$1000 would be fair for their mess up and not be bending them over for being honest.

The difficult part is separating emotional value from actual value.

Emotionally she could not be priced.
Actuality if you can get $1000 be happy.

Very sorry for your loss. It�s tough losing the ones you love.

I agree

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Posted by 2nd Mac on 02-06-2020 11:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RatDog
I agree

My thoughts exactly.

Posted by Olrebel on 02-07-2020 12:19 AM:

So how did it go?

Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-07-2020 01:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Olrebel
So how did it go?

They were very, very nice, and they were genuinely saddened by the whole thing. If this had to happen, I am happy it happened with folks that are interested in doing what they can to make it right.

They felt like $2,500 was fair. The vet said his daughter purchased a designer mix Labradoodle for $1,700 so he thought what I was asking for was reasonable. When we talked about that I remembered a lady that I know sells her Goldendoodle's for $3,200.

He also said he has a friend that's into coonhunting, and he is going to see if his friend can guide us on price, even if its higher, or possibly help find a dog with comparable lines. I was honest with him, explained that I posted here and the other avenues that I've taken trying to come up with a reasonable replacement cost. I'm interested in what his friend is able to contribute to this as well.

At the end of the day, they are going to help me, and they gave me some peace of mind. They also gave me a lot of comfort with their professionalism and knowledge - to the degree that I think I would be okay with them treating one of my dogs in the future. This is the very last thing I thought I would ever say, but the truth is that they are human and it was an honest error.

Anyway, once we get it ironed out I will let you know. I really appreciate your help and the insights everyone has offered.

In the meantime, if anyone knows of any similar quality pups, please let me know.

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Posted by JeanneMeier on 02-07-2020 01:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Olrebel
So how did it go?

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Posted by mike shannon on 02-07-2020 07:40 PM:

TWC

I have to ask what is TWC?

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