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Let’s discuss Collar conditioning

Any stories and detailed descriptions of how you like to collar condition dogs and any tricks you might have learned to get hounds prepared to wear and be corrected by the E-collar. Has anyone used the leather pinch training collar with Studs similar to an e collar? I heard it works well to help bridge that gap and get them collar conditioned.when you pull the studs pinching their neck are supposed to be similar to light simulation I think.
Anyone Throw their dog on a long rope with the E-collar on and tone every time you pull on the rope? I’ve heard not to use any stimulation in this training process, just the tone button. Does this sound right to only use the tone button and no stimulation at all? Any help or even a debate or discussion would be nice
I know I’m not the only one that finds this interesting and would like to perfect their craft

Thanks for reading and responding if you are willing to share some useful knowledge to a young buck

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Thomas Kimball
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People won't like my opinion. For years I have watched videos on what to do and what not to do. I have watched videos of starting them like you said with a rope and then working off the rope.

Just like the Garmin ALPHA has changed the way we think about our dogs hunting and tracking. The Garmin ALPHA has changed the way I think about dogs responding to the stimulation, vibration and tone.

In FL we have thousands of deer hounds that wear these collars. These dogs are conditioned by having the collar put on them and then if they don't come when called. The get bumped. Some honk their horn when the dogs are coming to a road and they want to catch them. If they don't come they get bumped. No special pre training.

I these guys dogs weekly behave like well manner children with no pre-training.

Now I am from the old school and like I said. Have many hours of Tri Tronics videos under my belt. So I do it a little different. I have 4 acres fenced that I let my dogs play in and that I can control them in. I put the collar on them and then when I want to put them in their pens. I call them. If they don't come, they learn what the collar can do. Just once or twice and all you have to do is tone them and they will come right to you. I have 3 hard treed dogs here and every one can be toned to come, off a race or off a tree.

Another thing that I see that being from the old school I have a hard time with. Is using the collar to bump dogs off bad tracks. I am not into doing that. I have buddies that will do that in a heartbeat. Their dogs are better dogs.

These things are wonderful tools if the owner is not afraid to use them. I will probably die on cautious side but that is because I am from the older generation of being careful with a tree dog, thinking you will ruin it. That is really not the case.

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"Boss Lights"

Personally I use two things that I think really help. I do not use electric correction as my main means to get a dog to come to me. In the yard I train them to come to tone. Really a simple process that most learn quickly. I will use E-correction if they fail to respond to tone only after I am sure they know what tone means. Secondly I always use the lowest e-correction that will get the result. Very very seldom does a dog need to be corrected at a high level. Now that's just my 2 cents worth and 2 cents isn't worth much.

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Tom Wood

I'm with Bruce and Tom,

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Bill Harper
Washington, NC
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Tom you are right. The TONE is the tool. The ZAP gets them to understand the tone. It only takes a couple ZAPS and tone is all you need.

The main thing is a person has to decide what they want the tone or make the dog do. Most of the time it is to come in.
However you have to decide the things you want your dog trained to do and then use the different tools available to get the results. In other words you can't teach it to sit when toned and also come to you when toned and also lay down when toned. There are other things including a whistle that can be used along with a training color to control the dog.

Most collars have three features. Stimulation, vibrate, tone. You can add a whistle or car horn or voice commands. With the whistle, car horn or voice commands. The stimulation reinforces what you taught them to do when they hear a whistle or command.

I am not sure that a trained dog knows a difference in vibrate or stimulation. Something I have often wondered. As many times I have felt I was zapped working around electricity but it was just some vibration or movement that surprised me.

Stimulation is generally just used in the beginning to teach them other commands. After that it is not needed but there just in case.

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"Boss Lights"

Train how you want to but putting a e collar on a dog with out first putting it on a lead rope to condition it just leads to problems. I've seen dogs bumped after calling them in go completely in the opposite direction with bubba standing there with that dumb stare on his face. Lol

I think the collar conditioning was more important years past because you wanted the dog to think what it was doing was the reason for the correction (chasing deer) and not the collar to prevent the dog from getting wise to the collar and continue to do chase deer when it wasn't wearing the collar. Now most times the ecollar is built into the tracking collar so they're always wearing it anyway.

II'm with you Bruce on the dog knowing the difference between tone and vibrate as far as it meaning different things to the dog. I've had it explained to me and it looks good on paper but I've put many hours of thought into it and have never felt comfortable pushing buttons for anything except stop what your doing and come. I wish I could as it opens up a lot of possibilities for training but I'm either not smart enough or my dogs aren't. I guess I too error on the side of caution it's not easy to get dogs hauled up here after I ruin them with the collar for spending too much time in one area or because they're going east instead of north lol. I wish somebody would write a book on the subject I'd buy it for sure

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quote:

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Originally posted by micooner
Train how you want to but putting a e collar on a dog with out first putting it on a lead rope to condition it just leads to problems. I've seen dogs bumped after calling them in go completely in the opposite direction with bubba standing there with that dumb stare on his face. Lol

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Tom Wood

Where I always messed up with an e-collar was being one number too high. I thought when a dog didn't react, he didn't feel anything. Even after a dog understands a command he won't obey it every time. Turn the collar one number below where he reacts and continue training. He feels it. He won't react but it's an uncomfortable feeling. That's the way to condition one without making him collar shy.

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Donald Bergeron

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micooner, I agree with you on conditioning the dog. Guess I assumed everyone did it. I just don't do a rope, I just get them coming to me when called. Every dog I own start to be conditioned the day I get it. I teach all pups raised here to come when called and use their food to enhance them wanting to come. I teach all new pups to come. Thing is that once these pups get some maturity or start to be a little hard headed. They don't come. The collar attached and used when you call them and they don't come. Sure reminds them what they should do and they don't forget it.

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"Boss Lights"

I want a nick to mean get the heck out of there. Tone is come. I never shock one that I want to come to me.

Tone is for the rope in the yard. I start nicking them and saying "get" when I cut them loose with the old dogs as puppies.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I want a nick to mean get the heck out of there. Tone is come. I never shock one that I want to come to me.

Tone is for the rope in the yard. I start nicking them and saying "get" when I cut them loose with the old dogs as puppies.

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quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
You use the nick and I use the constant. I apply pressure until they decide its too uncomfortable to stay here. I don't use the nick for anything. But I probably should. I don't use the tone to come either. After they understand what the pressure is for, I then start using the tone in front of it. Then pretty soon all you have to do is tone to get it to leave that area.

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Here is what I do. I put the collar on them when I let them out into the fenced back yard. That way they associate the collar with fun. Then after a couple of weeks, I will work a training session into the yard work. Say we are working on coming. I wait until the dog get distracted with something and I call it. I start out on level 1, and call the dog with a brief tickle. I watch the dogs behavior. Many times you will not notice any behavior. If the dog still doesn't come, then I try level 2 and so on. This process is as much for my benefit as it is for the dog. Say I see no reactions to a brief tickle until on level 4. That tells me for general obedience I will use level 3. In most cases that is all you will ever need. After the dog has learned different commands with electric tickles I will switch to tone. They usually pick tone up pretty fast.

Now if the dog doesn't come to level 3 I will jump to level 4. I have found for most dogs I will never have to use level 4 again to get the results that I want.

I have actually broke 2 dogs from running deer not going higher than level 3 in a period of about 2-3 weeks.

That is just what I do.

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Larry Atherton

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Oh, I forgot one little thing. I also work in freeze dried liver as a reward when the dog behaves well. Positive reinforcement works better when it is mixed in with negative reinforce and vise versa.

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Larry Atherton

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quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I want mine to shut it down and come to me if I tone them. Treed, running, looking at a coon, don't care. I want em headed my way when I tone them.

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Tom Wood

quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I want mine to shut it down and come to me if I tone them. Treed, running, looking at a coon, don't care. I want em headed my way when I tone them.

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Just from my personal experiences, you can better apply the pressure and release from the constant vs using the nick. I don't like to use the tone for the dog to come. I use a whistle and give a holler if the dog is here long enough.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I want mine to shut it down and come to me if I tone them. Treed, running, looking at a coon, don't care. I want em headed my way when I tone them.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

I have noticed one thing though. I had a very hard hunting dog that was tough to get in. I did the yard on a rope training. He kinda got to where he wanted to hang around because he felt like if he got too far he was going to get toned. Keep in mind I didn't zap him, only tone him. He will still go hard once he figures out I want him to go but right now it seems I have confused him and just from that one training session in the yard he thinks I want him to "heel" all the time.

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