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-- Stop Watches, Rules and Coon Hunts! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928494980)

Stop Watches, Rules and Coon Hunts!

After reading the post on this board for a long time I have come to several conclusions. I would like to offer some Sunday morning advice because it sure doesn't look likes its getting any easier out there in these competition hunts.

First lets talk about stop watches. Many guys use their wrist watches, some use the hunt timer app on the phone and some use stop watches. Let me share something with you about stop watches. Do you know that the top selling stop watch for coon hunters has a battery saver mode. Go to any vendors table in the country and look at stop watches, brand new in the packaging and some of them have had their start buttons pressed through the packaging and they are running. They have an energy conserving mode that will kick in and slow down the watch to prevent it from running the battery down. Same way if you accidentally leave it on running it will swap to the energy conserving mode. They guy using that watch will swear by it, use it to time a cast and jump up and down and call foul when someone disagrees with his time keeping. When we have nothing but an honest mistake that most people don't even know can happen with these stop watches. I suggest that in each cast you take a few seconds at the start of the cast and start and stop every watch together that is going to be used on the cast, to make sure they are all running the same.
Rules is another very important thing we are missing the boat on. Most hunt several registries and each have their own rules. I would say that it has become about common place that during a hunt, especially on dogs split up and being scored in different directions. The rules from one kennel club are confused with and used in another one. Why, because some rules are easier on the people involved. It seems like the fair thing to do and everything is fine. UNTIL there is a PROBLEM. Then you figure out the rule you used wasn't for the kennel club your hunting in. I also think it is very discouraging reading this board day after day and seeing just how little most people understand the rules. What does just about everyone on here tell a new person when they ask about hunting in UKC hunts. They are told to LEARN THE RULES. It is obvious to me anyways. That isn't happening. I blame a combination of things from the hunters to the Kennel Club on this problem.
Coon Hunts and the rules started to have a problem in the mid 80's and especially into the 90's when the independent hound came upon the scene. The rules that were wrote for the pack hounds of of 60's and 70's cannot fairly judge the dogs we are hunting today. UKC has stood by these outdated rules and it has caused a lot of heartburn in some of these hunts. The $kc's saw how things were going and have rules to govern todays hounds. Actually I feel the newest KC which eliminated dogs being leashed locked except when checking trees out of order has the best set of rules for todays hounds. I know someone will want to tell us how it was done back when. But we are dealing with todays hounds so we need todays rules. Not the rules Grand Pa had for his dog that wouldn't hunt 400 yards and not venture away from the other 3 dogs it is hunting with.

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Bruce all competition hunters should get four buddy's together for two weeks and hunt by that $$$$ kcs rules then if they like them make dang sure by the next rules meeting they got the right breed reps in place to make them pass tree countdown and no leash lock are the two that need implemented.

I have bought a bunch of Ultra Trac 440's over the years and a good many if them ran at half speed right out of the packaging. I think Bruce just explained why. I guess it turns out it wasn't the watches fault.
I'm inclined to be more concerned about a KC following their own rules than the hunters following them. That goes for both of the two bigguns.
UKC's club level entries took a major hit this past year while the other guys saw a major jump in entries, at least in my area. In talking to others around here this week, it looks like UKC is really trying to put that last nail in their own coffin.
I'll tell yah this much fellas, investigating misconduct can legitimately take some time but I don't believe there exists any hunt situation or question that cannot be settled in 30 minutes or less.

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Jim I know I give everybody fits lol. But under all that I really respect your opinions on things I really feel like the poll thread is ukc's attempt to find out how much revenue they are going to loose one way or anouther before they make their decision tell me if I am wrong.

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Moderator, I tried to delete this thread since Tar has drug it down into the mud. It won't let me, so please do it for me.

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Bruce if you don't want to address issues don't start threads Jim more less said the same thing as me but you didn't hammer him just for your imformation I drove 2/12 hrs each night at the zones each way judged spent $1,300 dollars at the world finals and I can't have an opinion where were you !!


Did you ever hear the song did I shave my legs for this.

Rules and Registries

In Jersey where I live the nearest PKC hunt is 4.5 hours away. UKC has been the predominant registry in Southeastern PA, Delaware and Coastal Maryland for years. Yes I have come across guys that mix up the rules, fairly often, when I decide to travel a great distance. My response to them is this."I hunt 95% of the time in UKC, therefore I know the rules and oh by the way, they are written on the back of the score card." Had it happen last week. The fellow read the rule and apologized. Had a cast stop on the way back to the club and say I was right on one occasion.. As a handler it is your responsibility to know the rules. If you do not like a particular set of rules, work with your association to get them changed or don't hunt that particular KC.Its simple. One thing that does not change is this. The coon goes up the tree. Coons eyes beats no eyes every time.Grandpa would like that. Find a dog that trees real live raccoons and a person can win a bunch of hunts. As far a the stop watch thing. I have never come across that, ever. Maybe you have been hunting with professional cheaters rather then professional coon hunters. Good luck on your next hunt. Mark Lucas.

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Tar you point blank said ukc was waiting on a decision once they figure out where they would make more money. That is not fair to ukc in my opinion. Now you removed that and changed it all around. Lucas i have sold hundreds of stop watches and encourage each person to read the instructions and if it running in the case. Take out the battery like the instrucrions say to do and reset it. Tar I was spending my money at a different world hunt. Probaby at least 2 times in the last four years i have had dogs qualified for the zones and none were taken there. These dogs combined winnings in other clubs are probably over 40 grand. Just a lot going on that time if year. Trust me it isnt because lack of dog power.

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Ok Bruce your right they don't care about making a profit.

In 30 years of comp hunting I have seen peoples watch different one time. The battery was low in my watch and it was not keeping time. We figured it out real fast on the first tree. Most differences are from calling time out and everyone not doing it at the same time. I've also seen judges start the time when we leave the truck. That really troughs everything off. I have my hand on my dogs collar and a finger on the button. When we let go of the collar I'm starting the time right then. Bruce if this is about the other post then from my understanding the issue isn't even about the time, it was a hole different matter. The time was just brought up on the board and everyone ran with it.

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Bruce, I was talking with the guys I have in from Tx, this morning saying Mr. Conkey will not get involved in this. LOL

My battery is low just not the one in my watch

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Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Tar you point blank said ukc was waiting on a decision once they figure out where they would make more money. That is not fair to ukc in my opinion. Now you removed that and changed it all around. Lucas i have sold hundreds of stop watches and encourage each person to read the instructions and if it running in the case. Take out the battery like the instrucrions say to do and reset it. Tar I was spending my money at a different world hunt. Probaby at least 2 times in the last four years i have had dogs qualified for the zones and none were taken there. These dogs combined winnings in other clubs are probably over 40 grand. Just a lot going on that time if year. Trust me it isnt because lack of dog power.

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Now I can assure you that guys do get rules mixed up between the KC's. But I've never been one to carry THE stop watch. I feel I don't know the rules of any KC well enough to judge. So when I get asked to I politely decline and state my reasoning. But I do carry my stop watch. But only really pay attention to it for the last 30 minutes in the hunt. And only if I have a chance at winning the cast. Probably not the best way to do it. But it works for me.

During this winter I plan on using my stop watch while pleasure hunting. That way I get used to keeping time.

could it be that all these rules are just to much.
i try to follow them and keep up on any new changes made and it's just crazy how confusing they can become? it's to bad it can't be as simple as strike and tree your dog. more hunts are won or lost by the handler than the dogs. is this the way we wanted our hunts to be?

Here is anouther back in the day I judged a many of cast with nothing but a wristwatch never had a problem out of anybody use a stop watch now when I judge and when your judging sombody asking you how much time is left on this or that gets old when you are trying to listen to your own dog too. Far as rules the dogs styles have changed to where an honest strike dog is at a disadvantage deeper wilder hunting styles have caused us to have to many time outs where we have to move to other woods. Most of us are used to using three different sets of rules anyway so a change won't be as confusing as you think. That being said I just get on here for entertainment matching wits with some of the greatest pot stirrers of all time almost more fun than hunting lol. A whole lot more than setting in the clubhouse all night by yourself lol

Tar