UKC Forums - Calling a dog

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Posted by ethan howard on 10-23-2017 03:39 PM:

Calling a dog

We had a hunt this past weekend, and we are trying to find the answer to a question we all had. When calling a dog for strike points, I say Strike, then the dogs name. Most people say dogs name, then struck. I was told that on the back of the scorecard that who ever gets their dogs name out first gets it. I do not believe that at all. Its not on the card. so anything is up for grabs for that. You can say "Dogs Name" and if its not struck in yet, a judge could write you strike points if you meant to say "Dogs Name" Withdraw??

It doesn't make sense

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Posted by Todd_Miller on 10-23-2017 04:06 PM:

Whoever I hear calling their dog first, dont care if its " Struck ???" or if its " ??? Strike".

Posted by MIKE CARDER on 10-23-2017 04:14 PM:

Well

Back in 2003 I was in the finals at the UKC hunting beagle nationals. I was right next to the judge and my hound opened up and I said “That’s Hackbar, put him on the paper” well we circled the rabbit and the track became dead. Well after the track was over a man said Carder didn’t strike his dog. After a brief question and vote we hunted on. Long story short the MOH ruled against me and said you must STRIKE your hound. My question was how did he get on the paper if I hadn’t. So since then I say STRIKE so n so. No in PKC and CHKC I use dogs name first. It all came down to that good ole Michigan home cooking. Lol just kidding Todd. I can say this there is no right or wrong way of notifying the judge that your hound is struck in except after the Thrid bark.

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Posted by Autumn Clements on 10-23-2017 04:46 PM:

quote:

Allen / UKC wrote on 09-15-2014 09:35 AM:

quote:

Autumn Clements wrote on 09-14-2014 09:32 PM:
Had something come up on a cast the other weekend I had never came across before. When someone is calling a dog struck or treed and two handlers are calling it close together does it matter wether you are calling it STRIKE DOG / DOG STRUCK or TREE DOG/DOG TREED ?

No it does not matter which way the handler calls it. Who ever started calling first should get the first position. The other side of that is; an experienced handler will learn that what registers the quickest in a judges mind is the name of the dog. In other words he may not be able to identify who started calling first as he will the name of the dog he heard first. If that makes any sense?

Allen

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-23-2017 04:55 PM:

It became common place several years ago to use your dogs name first. I am not saying anything about the rules. But if you have been in enough hunts the judge has to go by what he hears and when he hears a dogs name first he usually will process that as first over the word strike.

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 10-23-2017 05:04 PM:

Ethan, a strike call should be taken regardless of who says the name first. In other words, whoever starts their call first. That's what you should get as an official ruling.

However, here's what you should consider as a handler as it relates to the judges' perspective. As the judge, if he or she has a couple handlers calling their dogs in very close order, (almost on top of each other) it can be tough for a judge to actually identify which of the two handlers started to make the call first. Remember, it's dark and lip reading is usually not possible. Also, sometimes the judge doesn't know every handlers tone of voice. That considered, a dogs' name is usually what often times registers first with a judge.

Here's an example:

Handler A says "strike Crocket"

Handler B says "Banjo Struck"

And Mike Carder says "put my dog on the paper"

Keep in mind, all three are starting to spit it out in very close order. What is going to register in the Judge's brain first? In this case, most likely "Banjo". At least that's how my brain works when handlers are calling their dogs on top of each other. I'd say most judges would agree.

Something to consider as a handler and why it can be difficult for a judge to decide who struck first or who struck ahead of who. If all three would have said their dog's name first, it might have been the difference in the judge taking the call 1, 2 and 3 opposed to possibly awarding one or more of them in the wrong position or possibly even splitting strike points.

Posted by swamp1 on 10-23-2017 05:05 PM:

So if you say strike and before you say dogs name it barks 4th time are you scratched? Had it happen to me,just wondering?

Posted by MIKE CARDER on 10-23-2017 06:19 PM:

In my case

It wasn’t a matter of a close call with another handler, he was clearly struck 2nd, approximately 30 seconds later third strike was called. But in close situations use the dogs name first. Like Allen said it will register with the judge quicker. Just human nature.

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 10-23-2017 06:27 PM:

Re: In my case

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
It wasn’t a matter of a close call with another handler, he was clearly struck 2nd, approximately 30 seconds later third strike was called. But in close situations use the dogs name first. Like Allen said it will register with the judge quicker. Just human nature.

Mike carder your scratched !! take your dang dog and just go home !! had it with ya !! lol

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 10-23-2017 06:28 PM:

Re: In my case

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
It wasn’t a matter of a close call with another handler, he was clearly struck 2nd, approximately 30 seconds later third strike was called. But in close situations use the dogs name first. Like Allen said it will register with the judge quicker. Just human nature.

Just had to throw it in Mike, since you explained your way of calling dogs. Lol.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 10-23-2017 07:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by swamp1
So if you say strike and before you say dogs name it barks 4th time are you scratched? Had it happen to me,just wondering?

no you are not. your call started before the third bark, and that's all you can do by the rules. in that case, the judge was just looking for a reason, as lame as it was.

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Posted by MIKE CARDER on 10-23-2017 07:10 PM:

I know Allen!!!

The best part of it was the judge asked me when he opened “Who’s dog is that” of course I’m gonna say mine. Put him on the paper.

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Posted by ethan howard on 10-23-2017 07:40 PM:

So if 2 handlers are calling at the same time who gets it out first gets it? I believe it should be split before full points are given

Posted by Pat Bizich on 10-23-2017 11:19 PM:

I was on a hunt some years ago that I was judging.
Dog I was hunting was absolutely 1st or 2nd type strike.
I drew this dog that had 2 firsts already.
Turns out she also was a top notch first strike dog too.
We were getting put right into coon so the calls were coming fast.
Trouble was ,he was calling his dogs name first and then "strike".
I had seen this what I call a competition hunters edge calling before.
I argued ,unsuccessfully with the other cast members that I should be splitting my and the others dogs strikes as I was saying strike and he was calling out dogs name at the same time.
They disagreed because they were "HEARING" the other dogs name before mine.
I was determined to teach them a lesson and resolved I would call my dogs name and then "strike" on my next opportunity.
Sure enough on the last turnout I called my dogs name and was saying strike as the other handler was calling out his dogs name.
I wrote the split on the card as I had said it should had been on prior calls.
When I was tallying the score that handler said .You split those points??
I calmly told him" Yes, I only wanted to prove my point.The only difference was that I called my dogs name first.We should had been splitting those strikes all night."

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Posted by ringtail on 10-24-2017 02:30 AM:

Simple:

Name your dog Struck. Then just say Struck struck and be done with it.

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Posted by shadinc on 10-24-2017 03:43 PM:

Re: Simple:

quote:
Originally posted by ringtail
Name your dog Struck. Then just say Struck struck and be done with it.

That would work unless there was a dog named Strike on your cast.

Posted by Surveyor on 10-24-2017 05:25 PM:

How about this one that happened in a hunt I was in (though not on my cast) a couple weeks ago: One handler is in the process of saying a long drawn out "I'm going to tree my dog" after he got out the words "I'm going to" but before he got out "tree my dog" another handler spoke up quickly and said "tree my dog". Who gets first tree? This one was a question that was taken back to the club, made a difference in winner and sparked a lot of thought and debate. Been debating it in my mind also. Whats everybody think?

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-24-2017 06:12 PM:

As a handler that is driving several miles, going to probably walk several miles that night. You would think that it would be a no brainier to call your dog the quickest way possible to avoid confusion. If you dilly dallying around you deserve what you get.

I have heard people just about give a speech when they are fixing to call their dog. Then bellyache when the judge has penciled down another dog first.

You know someone starting to make a call is not the same as someone speculating on making a call. How is the judge to know the difference until he hears the Dogs Name and the Stirke or Tree.

If you put yourself in the position that your actions on a cast cause a question to be brought back to the clubhouse, especially on something as simple as this. You deserve what you get.

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Posted by MIKE CARDER on 10-24-2017 07:01 PM:

Lol

😂

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Posted by Surveyor on 10-25-2017 02:27 PM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
As a handler that is driving several miles, going to probably walk several miles that night. You would think that it would be a no brainier to call your dog the quickest way possible to avoid confusion. If you dilly dallying around you deserve what you get.

I have heard people just about give a speech when they are fixing to call their dog. Then bellyache when the judge has penciled down another dog first.

You know someone starting to make a call is not the same as someone speculating on making a call. How is the judge to know the difference until he hears the Dogs Name and the Stirke or Tree.

If you put yourself in the position that your actions on a cast cause a question to be brought back to the clubhouse, especially on something as simple as this. You deserve what you get.

I somewhat agree with you in that it's a very dumb handler error to call your dog in a long drawn out sentence and if doing it like that costs you well then that's tough luck, BUT lets assume this was a guy or kid in his first hunt (and I really don't have any idea who it was) that has a nice dog and thought hey I'll give these hunts a try. They may have been under the impression that it is supposed to be about the dog that actually treed first and not about the handler that called it the clearest. Now this guy gets beat because of this, swears off hunts forever and joins the face book, comp hunt, bashing group who have daily posts about the hunts being nothing more than a bunch of crooks and titled dogs don't really tree coon etc. With the dwindling hunt numbers maybe it's time we quit alienating the newbe and try to help them. Just food for thought.

Posted by joey on 10-25-2017 03:05 PM:

Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
I somewhat agree with you in that it's a very dumb handler error to call your dog in a long drawn out sentence and if doing it like that costs you well then that's tough luck, BUT lets assume this was a guy or kid in his first hunt (and I really don't have any idea who it was) that has a nice dog and thought hey I'll give these hunts a try. They may have been under the impression that it is supposed to be about the dog that actually treed first and not about the handler that called it the clearest. Now this guy gets beat because of this, swears off hunts forever and joins the face book, comp hunt, bashing group who have daily posts about the hunts being nothing more than a bunch of crooks and titled dogs don't really tree coon etc. With the dwindling hunt numbers maybe it's time we quit alienating the newbe and try to help them. Just food for thought.

If that's all it takes to get him to go that way then he wasn't going to make it. Comp hunting obviously isn't for everyone.

Lets say its the other guy that was calling his dogs first hunt too. He gets mad and never comes back because he wasn't the one given the tree and felt cheated? Then what?

Everyone learns the ins and outs of this game by going and doing it. I took a beating my first several hunts because of little stuff like this. I learned my lesson and made corrections. Treat everyone fairly but dont treat them with kid gloves because it might hurt their feelings. As a judge I have been guilty of letting new guys get by with little stuff but I always make sure to let them know so that next time its not an issue.

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-25-2017 03:23 PM:

Maybe it is time we quit worrying about alienating someone and doing things the right way. If any judge sits there and listens to a Long Winded George say that his PR Tonto Ridge Hero dog from an all Grand Litter sounds like it is fixing to tree and that after it gives the double bark followed like a single bark he usually trees him and he always has the coon, but in a hunt situation with strange dogs he usually wants to listen a little longer but he is sure his dog is fixing to tree but just isn't settling like he normally does but thinks he should put him on the card as treeing. And while all that is being said someone says "BO Treed". You think that guy has any argument that he started to tree his dog first. If he wants to argue about that he doesn't need to be in a comp hunt. If anyone wants to entertain that argument they don't need to be at a comp hunt.

You want to blow about your dogs. Do what I do and Tar does and get on this message board and sit in the air conditioning and type away. You want to handle a dog. Go to a hunt and say "Bo Struck" "Bo Treed" that is all that has to be said during a 2 hour hunt by the handler. Hopefully you will say it several times during a hunt.

We talk about babbling dogs. We have a lot of babbling handlers. We talk about mean dogs. Babbling Handlers usually get mean when their nonsense isn't listened to.

If getting beat makes you want to quit this sport. You should never of started! If you can't learn from loosing. Then get a computer and pull up a chair. Someone will agree with you on here. Maybe we can start a Tar Baby Group!

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Posted by Surveyor on 10-25-2017 03:40 PM:

"agree with me" Hey man I was just throwing it out there for debate. I'm quite torn on the subject and the correct ruling on the situation myself. I sure took a lot worse beatings and actual cheatings when I was younger and though I did set out awhile I kept after it. Not sure where the "blow about your dogs" or "baby group" comments are coming from, but if your directing them at me I assure you I let my dogs do the talking and if you say to my face I'm in some kind of baby group I'll be right up in your face in a heart beat!

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