UKC Forums - Question For The Breeding Guru's???

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-- Question For The Breeding Guru's??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928484283)

Posted by HOBO on 06-23-2017 03:06 PM:

Question For The Breeding Guru's???

What would you think about making a half sister/brother cross that would also be an Aunt/Nephew cross?

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Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
But Looking To The Future...

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 06-23-2017 03:26 PM:

Hobo,

First of all, no gurus here. Just a meager opinion.

If the COI is 0.20 or below, and the thought of crossing those two individuals excites you, go for it.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by yrphunter on 06-23-2017 06:19 PM:

Larry, can you explain the Coi and the process to figure that out?

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Dry Branch Kennels
Churchville, VA

PR Dry Branch's Thunder Braley
PR Dry Branch's foggy mtn daisy

Never forgotten-
PR Dutch Hollars Mtn Cry Diamond

Posted by Larry Atherton on 06-23-2017 06:53 PM:

COI

Coefficient Of Inbreeding is a fairly nasty mathematical formula that calculates the potential of bad recessive genes in dogs with common ancestors.

There are websites and software programs that automatically provide the calculation of COI simply by plugging in pedigrees of both parents. If I remember correctly there may even be some available free.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 06-23-2017 07:29 PM:

Larry just think in the perfect world there could be a check list for coon hound traits. I am not talking about the 10 I have or the 10 you have or the 10 the next guy has. I am talking about 10 or 15 traits that would be verified and specifically entered into a data base. Then the pedigree along with the COI could be evaluated to say yes or no to making a cross.
I will never see it in my life time but one day it will be here.

Guess what. When it happens Ole Lipper will still be showing up. lol

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Posted by DMG_3 on 06-23-2017 07:42 PM:

Mr.Hobo, i think you should just go with what you think...i dont think anyone can complain about how your breeding program has been doing already....just my 2 cents.

Posted by OLD TIMER on 06-23-2017 08:00 PM:

WOW----

I think you have some "top shelf" stuff already so I don't think I would do it.

The nephew to aunt is an outstanding cross, but the guy I've followed and studied dating back to the 30's never bred 1/2 brother 1/2 sister for a very good reason.

They will never drive the truck nor will they ever load the gun.

I think you are doing it right the way it's been working for you.

__________________
OLD TIMER

Posted by Huntnharris on 06-23-2017 08:11 PM:

Half brother x half sister that is also a nephew x aunt cross? How,is that even possible? Sounds like you need to out cross to me

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Posted by HOBO on 06-23-2017 08:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Huntnharris
Half brother x half sister that is also a nephew x aunt cross? How,is that even possible? Sounds like you need to out cross to me

I just posted the two pedigrees so you can see how its possible.

LOL

..............Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Lobo
........Gr.Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Boone
.............Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy
.....Gr.Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Pride
..............'PR' Byer's Clear Creek Sackett
........Ch.'PR' Johnson Potts Creek Dolly
..............'PR' Byers Potts Creek Ginnie

Gr.Ch. Swampmusic Big Hoss

.............Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Lobo
.......Nt.Ch.'PR' Oneil's Lobo Benson
.............Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy
....Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Miss Mary
..............'PR' Lambert's Pork Chop
.......'PR' Lester's Country Style Ruby
...........'PR' Wilcox's Upper Creek Queen

PUPS?

......................Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Boone
...............Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Lobo
......................'PR' Dohoney's Misty
.............Gr.Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Boone DNA-VIP
......................Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Southern Pines Jet
...............Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy
......................Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.'PR' Cedar Run Jammin Ginger
.....Gr.Ch. 'PR' Swampmusic Pride
......................Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.Rock River Sackett Jr
..............'PR' Byer's Clear Creek Sackett
......................'PR' Fergusons Clinch Mtn Sue
.............Ch.'PR' Johnson Potts Creek Dolly
......................Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
..............'PR' Byers Potts Creek Ginnie
......................Ch.Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy

Ch. Swampmusic Blood On The Moon

......................Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Rock River Sackett Jr
...............Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch.'PR' Tar Heel Nitro
......................Nt.Ch.'PR' Maple Ridge Ruby
.........'PR' Lambert's Pork Chop
......................Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Rock River Sackett Jr
..............'PR' Payne's Yadkin River Snoody
......................'PR' Wildwood Cotton
..... 'PR' Lester's Country Style Ruby
......................Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Wagers' Stylish Lipper
............Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Huff's Stylish Banjo
......................Gr.Nt.Ch. Abbot's Hillbilly Kate
...........'PR' Wilcox's Upper Creek Queen
......................Nt.Ch.Ch.'PR' Price's Magic Bruiser
............Ch.Nt.Ch.'PR' Paynter's Treeing Patty
......................Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch.'PR' Blue Ridge Queen

Posted by HOBO on 06-23-2017 08:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DMG_3
Mr.Hobo, i think you should just go with what you think...i dont think anyone can complain about how your breeding program has been doing already....just my 2 cents.

thanks.

I'm about 90% sure I won't make the cross. BUT you never know.

Posted by yrphunter on 06-23-2017 08:56 PM:

Thanks for clarifying that mr Larry I'm going to look more into it!

Hobo you have some sharp hounds, hunted with one back in the spring and liked him a good bit!

__________________
Dry Branch Kennels
Churchville, VA

PR Dry Branch's Thunder Braley
PR Dry Branch's foggy mtn daisy

Never forgotten-
PR Dutch Hollars Mtn Cry Diamond

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 06-23-2017 09:11 PM:

I would bust it wide open and never slow down

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Posted by Krystal / UKC on 06-23-2017 09:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
I just posted the two pedigrees so you can see how its possible.

LOL

..............Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Lobo
........Gr.Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Boone
.............Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy
.....Gr.Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Pride
..............'PR' Byer's Clear Creek Sackett
........Ch.'PR' Johnson Potts Creek Dolly
..............'PR' Byers Potts Creek Ginnie

Gr.Ch. Swampmusic Big Hoss

.............Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Lobo
.......Nt.Ch.'PR' Oneil's Lobo Benson
.............Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy
....Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Miss Mary
..............'PR' Lambert's Pork Chop
.......'PR' Lester's Country Style Ruby
...........'PR' Wilcox's Upper Creek Queen

PUPS?

......................Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Boone
...............Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Dohoney's Lobo
......................'PR' Dohoney's Misty
.............Gr.Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Boone DNA-VIP
......................Gr.Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Southern Pines Jet
...............Ch.'PR' Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy
......................Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.'PR' Cedar Run Jammin Ginger
.....Gr.Ch. 'PR' Swampmusic Pride
......................Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.Rock River Sackett Jr
..............'PR' Byer's Clear Creek Sackett
......................'PR' Fergusons Clinch Mtn Sue
.............Ch.'PR' Johnson Potts Creek Dolly
......................Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
..............'PR' Byers Potts Creek Ginnie
......................Ch.Swampmusic Little Bit Sassy

Ch. Swampmusic Blood On The Moon

......................Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Rock River Sackett Jr
...............Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch.'PR' Tar Heel Nitro
......................Nt.Ch.'PR' Maple Ridge Ruby
.........'PR' Lambert's Pork Chop
......................Ch.Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Rock River Sackett Jr
..............'PR' Payne's Yadkin River Snoody
......................'PR' Wildwood Cotton
..... 'PR' Lester's Country Style Ruby
......................Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Wagers' Stylish Lipper
............Gr.Nt.Ch.'PR' Huff's Stylish Banjo
......................Gr.Nt.Ch. Abbot's Hillbilly Kate
...........'PR' Wilcox's Upper Creek Queen
......................Nt.Ch.Ch.'PR' Price's Magic Bruiser
............Ch.Nt.Ch.'PR' Paynter's Treeing Patty
......................Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch.'PR' Blue Ridge Queen

That female has a pretty catchy name there

Posted by yadkintar on 06-23-2017 11:16 PM:

Hobo I knew there was redbone in your dogs Richard lamberts porkchop proves it !!

Posted by HOBO on 06-23-2017 11:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Hobo I knew there was redbone in your dogs Richard lamberts porkchop proves it !!

LOL

NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Posted by wbond on 06-24-2017 12:02 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yadkintar
Hobo I knew there was redbone in your dogs Richard lamberts porkchop proves it !! [/QUOTE

Leaves no doubt Redbone there for.sure

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Posted by shadinc on 06-24-2017 04:37 PM:

How else are you gonna get them pretty red heads on a Walker?

Posted by Black Ash Bawl on 06-24-2017 04:58 PM:

3 generations

Just go back three generations and see how many times those dogs show up. The odds of 2 dogs having the exact same genetic make-up because they have common ancestors 4 or more generations back is very unlikely. To show you what I mean , how many litters have you seen where every pup was the exact same . They all have different genetic traits inherited in different combinations. That's why I say if you are counting on a hound in the 4th generation or farther back to influence your pups, you just are not on the right path.

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Posted by HOBO on 06-25-2017 02:30 PM:

Re: 3 generations

quote:
Originally posted by Black Ash Bawl
Just go back three generations and see how many times those dogs show up. The odds of 2 dogs having the exact same genetic make-up because they have common ancestors 4 or more generations back is very unlikely. To show you what I mean , how many litters have you seen where every pup was the exact same . They all have different genetic traits inherited in different combinations. That's why I say if you are counting on a hound in the 4th generation or farther back to influence your pups, you just are not on the right path.

When Lobo treed he would stand down off the tree and bounce back and fourth on his front feet in time. Hence the term the Lobo Shuffle, I still see this trait 4 generations removed.

Right path or wrong path, most everyone that gets a pup from here tends to be happy with them.

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 06-25-2017 05:11 PM:

Hobo, Most do not know because they have never done it, I see Liza Jane traits in almost every litter, and keep those showing her traits, almost 20 yrs now and Happy as ever.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Posted by swamp1 on 06-25-2017 05:32 PM:

Re: Re: 3 generations

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
When Lobo treed he would stand down off the tree and bounce back and fourth on his front feet in time. Hence the term the Lobo Shuffle, I still see this trait 4 generations removed.

Right path or wrong path, most everyone that gets a pup from here tends to be happy with them.

x2, traits is what it boils down to. I believe, let's just say you take a nice female and breed to a nice male.you keep yourself a nice pup, she makes a nice hound,takes traits back after her sire . you take that same nice female and breed her again to another nice male,keep yourself a male pup,he makes a nice hound,taking traits back after its mother. I believe if you cross these two back later,you could get some nice hounds.after all, similar happened one time by accident and we got a bone,and it won't a redbone,Lol. PS, and I like redbones,good' ns that is,I like' m all,them good' ns.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-26-2017 01:21 PM:

I still remember Ol' Chop. He was one of the better Redbones that I have owned.

Posted by oldman on 06-26-2017 05:24 PM:

YOU want me to have another heart attack.??????.I been trying to get DENNIS to do some breeding like this for yrs.
you know I'M gonna say GO FOR IT..if I could still hunt I would love a pup from this cross.you won't know if you never try..

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Pound Va

Ph: 276-796-5321

i'm drinking from my saucer
cause my cup has overflowed

Posted by STROKIN on 06-26-2017 06:22 PM:

It's no different than an outcross. I've had good luck doing that but also bad luck. I still think it's a crap shoot on any cross.

Posted by yadkintar on 06-26-2017 07:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I still remember Ol' Chop. He was one of the better Redbones that I have owned.

Yepper that's how they got that deep red color on them don't worry Richard won't tell anybody but I am telling everybody lol.

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