UKC Forums - Putting drive in a dog

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Posted by georgef072007 on 04-12-2017 03:51 PM:

Putting drive in a dog

I have a dog that is 2 years old, and looks like a million dollars as long as he doesn't have to go over about 200 yards to do it. This dog tree's coons that other dogs blow by, and does it consistently but when the chips are down and he needs to get deep he doesn't. Any thoughts?

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 04-12-2017 04:27 PM:

Putting drive in a dog prob hardest thing or impossible to do!! they eather have it or they dont!! you can take it out but hard to put it in!! you never said if he will blow thru with a dog!! but if he can tree coon the way you say he can !! whats wrong just drop him where you know there is coon!! Unless hes just a Lazy type dog!! not much can be done!! but a lot will tell ya check his Thyoids!! seem like thats a big issue with a lot dogs anymore!!lol

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Posted by JiM on 04-12-2017 04:39 PM:

I agree with Chew on this one. But i have seen them go to hunting deeper as they get older so your dog may change some in the year ahead. I guess i would, as much as possible, avoid putting him where he finds those close by coons and try to hunt him where he has to look harder to get struck. Id also try sending him 300 or 400 yards across open ground before he gets to timber.

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Posted by Cory Estes on 04-12-2017 06:11 PM:

Do you ever hunt this dog with others? i have seen some that just dont want to hunt on their own and stay close like that, but with other dogs they will go as far as needed and will split some also. May be a thought.

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Posted by georgef072007 on 04-12-2017 06:29 PM:

Well, he gets turned loose with other dogs, he chooses not to hunt with them most of the time though. He is about a 90% loner and normally won't back a dog at all even if they are running the same track. if he doesn't tree first he will either not tree at all, or go jealous tree somewhere in the area, usually finds a den to load up on. I didn't try and get him this way, he did it on his own. I have even tried dumping him out on deer to try and get him to drive a track and see if that might motivate him a little more, but he won't run one of them. He has plenty of energy and an absolute blow down hammering tree dog even after hunting for 2 or 3 hours. He is a nt ch with 3 wins toward grand and I should be happy with him I know, but it just kills me when he won't go deep to find a track and beats the ground to death around me. Most nights he looks great around here, and he looked great at the Friday night zone hunt in Peru last year because we were in coons and he didn't have to get deep. Saturday night up there we were pretty much dry holed and he just wore out the ground where we were. If he had gone a half mile, he could have tree'd a coon. I know because one dog did, but he took too long to do it and the hunt was over by then. I thought he would grow out of it and be hunting harder by now, but I'm just not seeing it. I've even tried dumping him out in the middle of an 80 acre field with woods all around just to watch him beat the grass to death and stand out there and look at me.

Posted by georgef072007 on 04-12-2017 06:32 PM:

I hunt him by himself most of the time, he doesn't need help to tree a coon and doesn't want any. He just acts like he doesn't know he can go farther than that. I have his litter mate brother and sister here as well, and neither one of them have this problem so I'm at a loss trying to figure him out.

Posted by POTOMAC on 04-12-2017 06:33 PM:

Imo which isn't worth much but drive and heart are born in them they have to or they don't there are a few things to help them tricks per say but reality is its born in them and if it's not the dogs might tree coon but will never be that belly down go until he/she finds a coon type of dog , I'm sure they're are some that won't agree but I live in thin coon and a dog has to go and that's what gotten most ride outta here cause they just don't hustle !!

Posted by POTOMAC on 04-12-2017 06:33 PM:

Posted by Cory Estes on 04-12-2017 07:19 PM:

i would almost agree, unless coon are ridicluously thick where you live i wouldnt want a dog of that nature. Thats just my opinion though bud. im really at a loss for helping ya out.

Posted by georgef072007 on 04-12-2017 07:53 PM:

That may be the problem, I started this dog and have consistently hunted him where he doesn't have to get deep to tree a coon. The clubs in this area always want me to guide because I put the casts in coons, maybe I need to find some hunted out country to dump him in night after night. Maybe after enough time not being able to find a coon close, he will start going deeper.

Posted by Ray&Luie on 04-12-2017 09:39 PM:

Drive

Sounds like you just need to drive this dog over to my house and let me feed him

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Posted by H.W. Moore on 04-12-2017 10:04 PM:

I dont have an answer for a dog that won't hunt out, but for the sake of your breed and the sport have him fixed.

Posted by georgef072007 on 04-12-2017 11:06 PM:

Well, I don't intend to have him "fixed" at the moment but he certainly isn't on the schedule to be stood at stud at the moment. If I can get past this with him he may get a chance to reproduce at a later date, but the key word is "if".

Posted by Blusk25 on 04-12-2017 11:22 PM:

Opinions

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
I dont have an answer for a dog that won't hunt out, but for the sake of your breed and the sport have him fixed.

I know a lot of pleasure hunters that would love to have this dog. Sometimes when mines a mile away in the mountains, I would probably like to have this dog. lol. But some people like different things.

Posted by joey on 04-12-2017 11:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by georgef072007
Well, I don't intend to have him "fixed" at the moment but he certainly isn't on the schedule to be stood at stud at the moment. If I can get past this with him he may get a chance to reproduce at a later date, but the key word is "if".

I know a lot of guys that their hunting land is shrinking fast and would love to have a dog like yours.

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Posted by JiM on 04-12-2017 11:31 PM:

There is a difference between a dog that lacks drive and a dog that wants to hunt where the coons are. Without seeing the dog go, im sure not gonna try to label him either way but from Georges description, I think its possible the dog hunts close because he has never needed to go deep. It may just be that the dog doesn't comprehend that there is a world beyond the edge of the woods.

Posted by H.W. Moore on 04-13-2017 12:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by georgef072007
Well, I don't intend to have him "fixed" at the moment but he certainly isn't on the schedule to be stood at stud at the moment. If I can get past this with him he may get a chance to reproduce at a later date, but the key word is "if".

I hope he works out, I just meant if he doesn't start hunting out alone naturally he should never be bred.

Posted by CHEWBACH on 04-13-2017 01:16 AM:

OK enough of bull!! you want him to go!! pull up to a woods about 4-500 yrds from rd!!! get him out box!! hold him by collar put leash in the other hand!! make sure the chain part is free!! let him have about 3 or 4 good whacks!! cut him loose keep this up until you have the results your looking for!! if this dont make him go!! then you will have to deal with it!!!if you just pet the dog around he will be content to be lazy!!! good luck

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Posted by MUSKY on 04-13-2017 01:24 AM:

I have a English female that was the same way, she has grown to be a consistent 700 or 800 yard hunter though. Hunt him in thin coon and when he checks in send him on. Sometimes that 200 or 300 yard dog is pretty nice for Monday through Thursday night though.

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Posted by msinc on 04-13-2017 02:30 AM:

I too believe that drive is something that is bred into them and like track and tree power either it's there or it is not. I believe dogs can improve some but haven't really seen it change much and never enough to suit the guys that want more. In other words, the more coons he trees he might get to where he goes out 300 or 400 maybe, but he is probably not going to go 800.
That said, I have some young dogs I am working now that started out not really going out too far when I first got them. I have a farm and run these dogs at least every other day, during the day, whether I hunt them at night or not. I ride on a four wheeler and we typically go 3, sometimes 4 miles per run. In the summer I stop at our ponds and let them cool off and play in the water, which they also seem to really love.
Currently all three hunt out a little wider than I would like. It could be that they just naturally hunt this wide, but they sure seem to really enjoy all the daylight runs they go on. Maybe I am wrong, but getting them into the habit of running long distances when they are turned loose seems to be a habit that is carrying over to hunting them at night. I realize this is just not something many hunter/trainers can do with their dogs, you have to have the area to run them.
The catch, or real question is whether or not they have now become driven to actually hunt wider looking for coon.....or are they just used to running, so they are just going like an idiot because that is what they are conditioned to do????

Posted by georgef072007 on 04-13-2017 03:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
There is a difference between a dog that lacks drive and a dog that wants to hunt where the coons are. Without seeing the dog go, im sure not gonna try to label him either way but from Georges description, I think its possible the dog hunts close because he has never needed to go deep. It may just be that the dog doesn't comprehend that there is a world beyond the edge of the woods.

Well, Jim I hope that's the problem. I never really thought about where and how I have been hunting him normally until today and how that may contribute to the issue. I think I'm going to intentionally try and dry hole him every night for a couple of weeks and see what that does.

Posted by novicane65 on 04-13-2017 01:12 PM:

Don't just do it for a couple weeks. If you can dry hole him for 30 nights you might see a different dog. But it could take longer than 30 nights. It sounds like he's not really lacking in the drive but the hunt department to me. As Jim stated a close hunting dog can have drive. There's other ways to send one on too. Let us know how he does.

Posted by Ray&Luie on 04-13-2017 01:20 PM:

Drive

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
There is a difference between a dog that lacks drive and a dog that wants to hunt where the coons are. Without seeing the dog go, im sure not gonna try to label him either way but from Georges description, I think its possible the dog hunts close because he has never needed to go deep. It may just be that the dog doesn't comprehend that there is a world beyond the edge of the woods.

I agree !

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Posted by georgef072007 on 04-13-2017 09:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Don't just do it for a couple weeks. If you can dry hole him for 30 nights you might see a different dog. But it could take longer than 30 nights. It sounds like he's not really lacking in the drive but the hunt department to me. As Jim stated a close hunting dog can have drive. There's other ways to send one on too. Let us know how he does.

I'll post updates as I go with him. I have a spot picked out for tonight that will be about 400 yards at least to anything resembling woods in any direction from where I'll park. I'm taking drinks in a cooler and a good book so I can sit and wait till he decides to go far enough to get something done. I figure a big wide open field is a good place start for getting some distance between us, hopefully he doesn't take all night to go find the woods.

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 04-13-2017 10:51 PM:

If he don't go huntin tie him to the truck bumper and turn another dog loose that will go huntin. Leave him tied right there. Do it for 10 nights. If nothin changes it likely is what it is. JMO

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