UKC Forums - Let's Talk HTX!

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »
Show all 56 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Let's Talk HTX! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928472402)

Posted by Krystal / UKC on 01-18-2017 04:58 PM:

Let's Talk HTX!

Okay, so recently we've received quite a few HTX reports where we've had to respond with warning letters due to the hunts being run incorrectly.

The biggest issue we've had is that people are judging each other's dogs. Joe goes out and inspects Gary's dog, then Gary turns around to inspect Joe's dog. It is stated in the rules that this is not allowed. I know it helps to cut down on time as well as makes it easier for clubs that draw in only a couple people, but let's brainstorm a bit.

Say you have three dogs show up. An idea is to have handlers of dogs A, B, and C go out together so that there's no need to regroup. While Dog A is hunting, send out the handler of Dog B to be inspector. Meanwhile, handler of Dog C waits in the truck. After finishing Dog A's inspection, it's Dog B's turn. Send Dog B and their handler out with the handler of Dog C as the inspector. Handler of Dog A sits back at the truck. Finally, Dog C's turn. Dog C and handler go out with handler of Dog A as their inspector. This way no one is inspecting a dog for someone that inspected theirs, nor is anyone inspecting a dog whose handler they've been to the woods with earlier that night. It can't be a hunt where you show up to hunt your dog and then leave. Help and support each other!

Throw out some of your guys' thoughts and ideas here to not only prevent more warning letters, but to also help out the small clubs that struggle to be able to hold these hunts. I, personally, enjoy these hunts and would like to see them become more successful.

Posted by wjoey on 01-18-2017 05:10 PM:

Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

__________________
JOE WILBANKS
423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

UKC PREFORMANCE SIRE Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse

HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks

Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old
Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

Posted by BigContry on 01-18-2017 06:43 PM:

I too enjoy these hunts. I always try to bring a friend with or without a dog. It is the clubs responabilty to make sure everyone is judge correctly. In our case, the VP or some other rep may have to go to the woods to judge without hunting their dog.

__________________
BigCountry
Tommy Gayle
985-233-1016

Posted by Dan Dogs on 01-18-2017 07:09 PM:

Hardest part of the HTX is once you get a bunch of dogs with a couple passes is trying to find inspectors that is allowed to inspect certain dogs. Our club has had as high as 14 dogs and as low as 3 dogs.

__________________
Home of:
- Gr. Nite Ch. Iowa County Crybabe
- Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan
- Gr. CH Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan II
- CH. Gr. Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan III 2008 Performance Sire
- CH. Gr.Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan IV 2004 ukc world hunt finalist
- Ch. Gr.Nite Ch. Mounds Creek Sassy II
- Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Bucky HTX 3 wins towards grnite
- GrCh.GrNtCh Hickory Nut Bawlie HTX
-Nite ch. PR Iowa County CryBaby II 2013 Badger State Hunt Champion
qualified for 2013 UKC World Hunt
CH Nitech She Hate Me (scar) HTX Iowa County Kennels

Posted by ThatBlueDog on 01-18-2017 09:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

I agree, these are always advertised to the guy that don't want to competition hunt and they are supposed to be laid back until you see all the rules. I think rules need changed. If someone's gonna cheat it doesn't matter the rules. It's only hurting the honest clubs that are willing to try something new to get more people to come to the club. But after the two our club had we aren't holding them anymore.

__________________
The guy who has to brag about his dog has everything to prove. If it ain't blue it ain't true.

Josh Brewster 330-360-8306

CH NITECH 'PR' That Blue Dog Copper'
Missasissy’s Bad Hatchet

Posted by Blusk25 on 01-18-2017 10:34 PM:

I know I've asked the guys at our local club about these. They don't like the "required" 1 hour hunt time. If a dog trees a coon in 15 mins then it should be over. The first one they did took all night trying to get the dogs the full one hour.

to get more numbers, htx should be required to get a ntch or grntch title. They should also count in top producers and to the performance program. If something to this nature don't happen. The program will die. I've been looking for one to go to and nobody's having them around here anymore.

Posted by Greg Burks on 01-18-2017 10:59 PM:

We had one at our club it went real good....I don't really understand all the cheating or the buddy hunts I know it exists but if I judge your dog I'm gonna be hard on it and if you judge my dog I will ask you to be hard on it....I want to be proud of what my dog accomplishes not what he can get away with....I also seen some me too dogs that couldn't pass an HTX hunt that were titled dogs....

Posted by Autumn Clements on 01-18-2017 11:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

I agree, and like ThatBlueDog said don't matter the rules if a person is going to cheat they will no matter what the rules are.

__________________
Autumn Clements

'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
CFC CH Canadian GCH Multi Group Placing MBPIG BBPIG LEGACYK STANNYFIELD PRIME TIME (AKC & UKC Pointed)
BPIG MBBPIG WINDAMIRS RED LIGHT DISTRICT V AMBERLANE
LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
LEGACYK WHITE AS A GHOST V CBLUES

Gone but not forgotten
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH'PR'CLEMENTS' BLUE PRANCER
GRNITECH GRCH'PR'SPIKE'S TWILITE HOOKER
'PR'PRANCER'S GETTIN DOWN N DIRTY (PrancerxHooker)
NITECH CH’PR’BUELL’S BLUE ROCKY(Whitey x Spice)
CKC BBPIG MARIES BABY BREEZE

Posted by wjoey on 01-19-2017 02:29 AM:

Here is a rule proposal , allow 2 people to judge each others dog only when 3 or less are entered but require that one pass must be made by a cast were there is one judge that has not been with the dog or does not have a dog testing for it to achieve htx , Assign license to people just like moh or bsj for htx testers and be choosey accept only applicants who are know for being honest and trustworthy and require club members to sign off on them so they can pass any dog that passes without having to go to a htx hunt hoping someone will be there , just my idea

Posted by Slowpoke 2012 on 01-19-2017 05:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

I agree. This rule has killed the HTX Hunts at our club as much as anything. And it's not all that easy to cheat anyway. 3 passes by 3 different judges.

__________________
Bawl, Chop, Bang, Thump.

PR. Missouri Hi-Dollar Slowpoke HTX

PR. Missouri Nite Hunt Hitman - R.I.P
08-08-2013 - 07-15-2015
Starved to death by a S.O.B named Austin Tibbits.

American Black and Tan Coon Hounds
----------------------------------------------------------

Nt.Ch. "PR." Wildside's BugEyed Betty (W)

Matthew Fann
816-565-1660

Posted by WalkerPower21 on 01-19-2017 08:18 AM:

HTX in general!?! What's the point!? Would Ntch or GrNtCh not be Enough? If it's got ntch an or GrNtCh I assure you it can easily say HTX or maybe I'm wrong? Most open hounds can go out an tree coon by themselves.. is HTX like the title that everyone gets for participating?! I know plenty of farm mutts who can go out an tree couple coon!! Guess their HTX farm coondawgs!

__________________
GrNtCh Split Creek History Slammer

Posted by WalkerPower21 on 01-19-2017 08:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Greg Burks
We had one at our club it went real good....I don't really understand all the cheating or the buddy hunts I know it exists but if I judge your dog I'm gonna be hard on it and if you judge my dog I will ask you to be hard on it....I want to be proud of what my dog accomplishes not what he can get away with....I also seen some me too dogs that couldn't pass an HTX hunt that were titled dogs....

Me twoers, titled?!? You got me 2ers winning multiple hunts?? Sounds like a handler issue around them Parts! I don't know to many handlers who can nor wanna talk about getting beat by a me twoer

__________________
GrNtCh Split Creek History Slammer

Posted by Krystal / UKC on 01-19-2017 01:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
Here is a rule proposal , allow 2 people to judge each others dog only when 3 or less are entered but require that one pass must be made by a cast were there is one judge that has not been with the dog or does not have a dog testing for it to achieve htx , Assign license to people just like moh or bsj for htx testers and be choosey accept only applicants who are know for being honest and trustworthy and require club members to sign off on them so they can pass any dog that passes without having to go to a htx hunt hoping someone will be there , just my idea

If there are three dogs there, there is no reason for two people to have to judge each other's dog. Hence the scenario I provided. Having only two dogs is where things get sticky. In that case, a designated member should be willing to judge both dogs. This is an issue that prevents some clubs from being able to hold the event correctly due to low member participation. ThatBlueDog says that these hunts are not laid back enough due to the amount of rules, so to add the need to be licensed judge adds more complication to the matter. I don't believe you need to be a licensed judge to be able to go out and inspect an HTX hunt. I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out. It's easy to say "let's reformat the whole thing". I'd like to see everyone put their heads together to make them work. I'm hear to listen to some possible tweaks, but I am not really in favor of allowing people to judge each other's dogs. That is when the titles become too easily fabricated.

Posted by Adam Wingler on 01-19-2017 01:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by WalkerPower21
HTX in general!?! What's the point!? Would Ntch or GrNtCh not be Enough? If it's got ntch an or GrNtCh I assure you it can easily say HTX or maybe I'm wrong? Most open hounds can go out an tree coon by themselves.. is HTX like the title that everyone gets for participating?! I know plenty of farm mutts who can go out an tree couple coon!! Guess their HTX farm coondawgs!

Take your farm mutt to big woods and thin coon, then let us know how many coons he trees solo.

Posted by ThatBlueDog on 01-19-2017 01:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Krystal / UKC
If there are three dogs there, there is no reason for two people to have to judge each other's dog. Hence the scenario I provided. Having only two dogs is where things get sticky. In that case, a designated member should be willing to judge both dogs. This is an issue that prevents some clubs from being able to hold the event correctly due to low member participation. ThatBlueDog says that these hunts are not laid back enough due to the amount of rules, so to add the need to be licensed judge adds more complication to the matter. I don't believe you need to be a licensed judge to be able to go out and inspect an HTX hunt. I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out. It's easy to say "let's reformat the whole thing". I'd like to see everyone put their heads together to make them work. I'm hear to listen to some possible tweaks, but I am not really in favor of allowing people to judge each other's dogs. That is when the titles become too easily fabricated.

You wanted feedback from the guys hunting them....it seems as though the majority agrees with the problems but yet we're still wrong and UKC is right. You want more club participation but both of us have seen club memberships decoining.

Posted by Brewster12 on 01-19-2017 02:20 PM:

Nothing is ever going to be perfectly formated, or appeal to everyone. Same as the night rules. But, here is what it boils down to a guy who is honest is going to be honest about the situation. And a guy that has to cheat and lie is going to do the same as long as he can. So with that being said I would say make the rules more fitting for the honest man, the cheaters and liars are going to do it regardless of the rules.

__________________
"Ain't never seen that dog do that before"

GR NiteCh 'PR' Psycho Roy's Singing Hank
CH 'PR' Buffalo Creek Mad Atem Murdock
'PR' That Blue Dog Ellie

Jake Brewster 330-360-0263

Posted by pamjohnson on 01-19-2017 02:33 PM:

i enjoy htx hunts. when ya have 3 dogs together and make numerous drops for each dog it is lots of hunting time. too much hunt time for during the week or even a weekend in some cases for that matter. too much to keep it fun which it should be. if a handler can't be honest with his dog on an htx they should consider just staying home for pete sakes. same goes for judging another dog.
i realize if the dog trees an has the coon in minutes and they get a pass it would cheapen the title a little but the title is meant to be fun so why not flow with it.
i think if they made a couple small changes like mentioned above many hunters would be happier.

Posted by joey on 01-19-2017 02:37 PM:

I have enjoyed going to the ones that I have but you have to have three people to go in each group. Let’s say you drive 15 to 20 minutes to hunt. First dog is judged, 1 hour of hunting, 15 to 20 minutes to get back to the truck. Move and repeat for the next one. That’s 1 1/2 to almost 2 hours per dog times 3. Dead line was 7. took 30 minutes to get everyone gone. 20 minute drive back to the club. Its now 2:30 in the morning and that’s if nothing goes wrong. You hunted an hour and then watch 2 dogs that might tree a coon walk you all over the woods. If 4 people show up you are really in a bad shape.

I know why you don’t want to change the rules, I really do but if it’s going to survive you going to have to do something. You said:

“I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out. It's easy to say "let's reformat the whole thing". I'd like to see everyone put their heads together to make them work."

Trust me finding the club members to step up is not going to be easy.

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Posted by michael.magorian on 01-19-2017 03:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
I have enjoyed going to the ones that I have but you have to have three people to go in each group. Let’s say you drive 15 to 20 minutes to hunt. First dog is judged, 1 hour of hunting, 15 to 20 minutes to get back to the truck. Move and repeat for the next one. That’s 1 1/2 to almost 2 hours per dog times 3. Dead line was 7. took 30 minutes to get everyone gone. 20 minute drive back to the club. Its now 2:30 in the morning and that’s if nothing goes wrong. You hunted an hour and then watch 2 dogs that might tree a coon walk you all over the woods. If 4 people show up you are really in a bad shape.

I know why you don’t want to change the rules, I really do but if it’s going to survive you going to have to do something. You said:

“I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out. It's easy to say "let's reformat the whole thing". I'd like to see everyone put their heads together to make them work."

Trust me finding the club members to step up is not going to be easy.

joey, you hit the nail right on the head. It is really easy for the UKC to look down and say "I don't like the way you do that, so fix it," but what are they doing to help the situation? Take the money, and issue papers or titles. If the UKC wants more participation at the hunts, maybe they should take some of the proceeds and compensate the clubs for all of their hard work and efforts to provide funding to the UKC. I'm probably banned for mentioning that.

This should be a club by club decision how they wish to address this "problem". I like the idea of HTX hunts and I don't want to see the title watered down like the rest of them, but there is only so much a person can do to prevent cheating. Ultimately it falls on the shoulders of the individual. Integrity is becoming more and more respected because it is becoming less and less common.

I wrote a paper once describing the decline of community participation. When did many community organizations start? After WWII, and why do you think that is? Look at many of your local community organizers. Who is running a lot of them? Veterans and veteran spouses. There's a lot that can be said and a lot a person can read into. People just don't care to participate any more, and it puts a lot of burden on those that do.

__________________
Walk softly and carry a big stick.

Posted by Surveyor on 01-19-2017 03:19 PM:

I have never understood why UKC is so against 2 people judging each others dogs, while at the same time all for hunting judges in competition hunts.

__________________
Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
UKC NT CH SHEPPARDS NORTHERN
BLUE LONER (RIP)
UKC GR NT CH RATTLERS BLUE SKY (RIP)
UKC Gr NT CH, PKC Ch Sheppard's Northern Blue Abbie, (PiazonxSky) UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Sheppards Northern Blue Punkin (PiazonXAlice) High scoring Bluetick of the 2015 (50th anniversary) Grand American, 2017 National Grand Nite Champion of breed, 2017 BBOA zone 4 Nite hunt dog of the year. Queen of hunt on 2019 Grand National Bluetick Reunion, 5th place and High Scoring Bluetick of 2019 UKC world Nite hunt Championship, 2019 Triple Crown Winner.
UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Mckintosh's Blue Flame Chopper
Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

Posted by John D on 01-19-2017 03:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Krystal / UKC
I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out.

Thats the key, imo. I would also include anyone who participates and enjoys these HTX's needs to step up and help out. Anymore there are alot of participants who never bother to join a club...

My club has strived to put an inspector on a dog, send them hunting for an hour and then everyone goes home. We have sent inspectors out with 2 dogs to hunt for 2 hours. The problem is the inspectors end up being the same guys time after time after time again and they get burned out. Several guys come and get their 3 HTX's and never show up again to give back. Some others have graciously inspected other dogs many more times than they've had their own dog inspected.

I've been scheduling HTX's for my club and last time we had 1 dog show up and I ended up inspecting it. The only other person there was a hard working club officer and he's done more than his share. So, that was the last HTX I'm going to schedule due to lack of entries and lack of support from the participants.

If we had it to do over again, perhpas we should require all participants to inspect a dog for every time they get theirs inspected or do something to encourage guys to inspect.

Personally, I'm against 2 guys inspecting each others dog on the same night, at this point. Elminating that requirement gives way to the perception of cheapening the accomplishment and Lord knows we have enough cheap titles and wins the way it is.

jmho.

__________________

Click here to visit The B&T Coonhunters Message Forum for news, views, open discussion, ads, and event winners in the B&T Breed (Registration, with your full name, required)

Click here to see my Dog List

Posted by michael.magorian on 01-19-2017 04:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by John D

If we had it to do over again, perhpas we should require all participants to inspect a dog for every time they get theirs inspected or do something to encourage guys to inspect.

There's a thought. Before your hound can be judged, you must judge someone else's. Your entries will either increase, or fall off the map. Coordinate with other clubs nearby and see if they are willing to do the same thing to prevent people from shopping around for the easiest route.

__________________
Walk softly and carry a big stick.

Posted by Champion#Sade on 01-19-2017 04:22 PM:

The unfortunate thing here is we have to discuss the honesty and integrity of so many people. Unfortunatly that is the country and world we live in this day and age and it is very disappointing. I can personally tell you I have no issue failing my own dog or anyone elses that would fail the test. I do agree if UKC would like to get more participation in HTX hunts both by member clubs and dog owners the rules need to be lightened to allow that to happen. I agree with the statement that if "people are going to cheat they will do it regardless of the rules in place". I don't believe an HTX title carries much weight for marketing dogs anyway. I feel it is more of an avenue to try to get more people to participate at local clubs and have some fellowship along the way. Both UKC and UKC member clubs know it is by no way a money maker for either. I do believe if UKC truely wants to get better participation in the HTX hunts, (which could lead to more participation in other UKC member club events) they would allow anyone to judge a dog in the woods other than anyone that owns part of or all of that particular dog and the same judge could judge the same dog multipule times for the dog to receive the title. I can hionestly tell you that before I completely understood the rules I actually judged a dog owned by my son and failed that dog. I may be the exception to the rule but a "title" of any sort doesn't mean enough to me to ruin my honesty or integrity I have worked my entire life to build. I enjoy pleasure hunting as much as competition hunting and the only reason I competition hunt is I have three sons that enoy it and it is a way for me to spend more time in the woods with them which is far more important than any title UKC or any other club could ever award to a dog I own.

__________________
NITECH'PR' JORDANS TIMBER
RATLIN SADE

Posted by shadinc on 01-19-2017 04:39 PM:

To me, it's as simple as either hunters want to do it or they don't. No matter how you tweak the rules, some people won't be happy.

Posted by mike shannon on 01-19-2017 05:11 PM:

I have let a youth in the club handle my dogs. The rules are if he/she barks say "strike" if he/she "barks fast" say "tree" then find the coon. Be honest. They get experience, my dogs get hunted and got a pass, and I had coffee and doughnuts with another old hunter in the truck. How can you lose?

__________________
PKC CH GRANDNITECH SPLIT CREEK HISTORY BUDDY HTX (RIP)
NITECH GRCH SHANNON'S HILLBILLY HANGOVER (RIP)
NITECH GRCH SHANNON'S HILLBILLY COOKIE HTX & PKC MONEY WON ( 3 times World Qualifier) (RIP)
NITECH GRCH HTX PR SHANNON'S HILLBILLY CHIEF 1 WIN FROM GRANDNITECH
PR SHANNON’S HILLBILLY MAXIE

If you can read this thank a TEACHER
If you can read this in English, thank a VETERAN

www.freewebs.com/shannonshowmekennels

United States Army Retired

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:27 PM.

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »
Show all 56 posts from this thread on one page