UKC Forums - Thyroid Dysfunction /Iodine Link in Dog food proof

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 01-16-2017 08:52 PM:

Thyroid Dysfunction /Iodine Link in Dog food proof

With all the controversy of the link of Thyroid and commercial Dog feed .I accidently stumbled onto this study of high Iodine levels in dog feeds and effects on the Thyroid in dogs.
Been saying it for the last several years.
This is the proof some of you all were wanting.
Maybe the problem is not enough Iodine but in fact TOO MUCH !!
A must read article.
http://www.jarvm.com/articles/Vol1Iss1/CASTIJVM.htm

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 01-20-2017 04:10 AM:

Bringing this back up.
This is a big concern to anyone and their breeding program.
We are killing our dogs with kindness.
What is upsetting is you feed your puppy or litter what you believe to be a high quality feed and if it has too much Iodine you are setting them up to have hypothyroid.
You get your pup from a breeder that has used one of these feeds and no matter what you feed the damage has already started.
The dog food companies don't list percentages of RDA or content amounts .
The Government agency over seeing food doesn't require it.

And while I am on my little rant here.
If anyone out there reading this likes the grain free offerings from various companies. I discovered that many add fish meal as a protein source .A lot of other foods are also using it. Now first thing I am thinking "how much Iodine is this adding?"
Another MUST READ article!!

http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...ein-source.aspx

Posted by ahallada on 01-20-2017 06:18 AM:

The article doesn't give any scientific research to back up these claims and the author was really talking about excessive iodine levels in cat foods leading to hyperthyroidism and not hypothyroidism. There is still no study that proves that high iodine levels lead to hyperthyroidism in cats, however, feeding restricted iodine diets has returned a few hyperthyroid cats back to normal levels. In many cats, this is has not been sustained for long periods of time and the thyroid levels creep back up over a 1 to 2 year period even though they were fed the same low iodine diet. It's not as easy as it appears to figure this out.

Here is what the author said about high iodine levels in cat foods: "Seafood is a very rich source of iodine, but cats aren't designed to process a lot of iodine. Many animal nutritionists, including me, believe there's a link between cats consuming too many iodine-rich foods and hyperthyroidism."

Again this is not proven, just educated guesses at this point.

Doc

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-20-2017 02:21 PM:

Hyper.....hypo..... Oh my goodness, this is getting awfully complicated. Are we going to have to go back to school? I thought that the dog food companies paid smart people big bucks to figure this stuff out. Why are we paying such high prices if we have to turn around and buy additives to put in ourselves?

Posted by ahallada on 01-20-2017 09:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Hyper.....hypo..... Oh my goodness, this is getting awfully complicated. Are we going to have to go back to school? I thought that the dog food companies paid smart people big bucks to figure this stuff out. Why are we paying such high prices if we have to turn around and buy additives to put in ourselves?

Nah you will be fine just trusting corporate america. lol There are so many factors that go into thyroid health in dogs and people. Hypothyroidism is very common in people today as well. Look at how much exposure we have to radiation today with our cell phones and other wireless devices on 24/7. Look at our life styles and the junk food we consume. I'd say hypothyroidism is more a lifestyle issue than it is a single problem in people. In dogs, genetic factors still have the most influence on thyroid health with most hypothyroid dogs having auto antibodies against their thyroid gland.

"Hypothyroidism in Dogs
Drs. Foster & Smith Educational Staff
Hypothyroidism is a common disease in dogs, but rarely occurs in
cats. The thyroid gland has a number of different functions, but it is
most well known for its role in regulating metabolism by
producing thyroid hormones. Hypothyroidism is the condition that
occurs when not enough thyroid hormones are produced.
Hypothyroidism causes a wide variety of symptoms, but is often
suspected in dogs that have trouble with weight gain or obesity and
suffer from hair loss and skin problems. Hypothyroidism is easy to
diagnose with a blood test that checks the level of various thyroid
hormones including T4. Most hypothyroid dogs respond readily to
treatment with synthetic thyroid medication such as Soloxine.
Many dogs suffer from a low thyroid hormone level for years
without treatment. If your dog has chronic recurrent skin
problems, or unexplained weight gain, she may be suffering from
hypothyroidism.
What causes hypothyroidism?
The thyroid gland is a small gland that is situated close to the
larynx (voice box) in the neck. It is regulated by the small pituitary
gland that is located at the base of the brain. Normally, the pituitary
gland produces a hormone called TSH (thyroid stimulating
hormone). This hormone tells the thyroid gland to produce thyroid
hormone. The amount of TSH produced is dependent on the
amount of thyroid hormone in the blood. The pituitary gland
responds to the blood level of thyroid hormone by producing more TSH if the thyroid hormone level is low, and less TSH if
the thyroid hormone level is high.
Hypothyroidism results from the impaired production and secretion of thyroid hormones. More than 95% of all cases occur as
a result of destruction of the thyroid gland. Most hypothyroidism is due to thyroid gland destruction that is suspected to be
caused by the dog's own immune system killing the cells of the thyroid gland. Hypothyroidism may also be a result of
atrophy of the thyroid tissue and resultant infiltration of the tissue by fat, or by a cancer. Hypothyroidism can also be
associated with the presence of other diseases and the use of certain medications. Rare cases of congenital hypothyroidism
have been diagnosed, as well.
Who gets hypothyroidism?
Although the onset of clinical signs is variable, hypothyroidism most commonly develops in
middle-aged dogs between the ages of 4 to 10 years. The disorder usually affects mid to large
size breeds of dogs, and is rare in toy and miniature breeds of dogs. Breeds that appear to be
predisposed to developing the condition include the Golden Retriever, Doberman Pinscher,
Irish Setter, Miniature Schnauzer, Dachshund, Cocker Spaniel, and Airedale Terrier. German
Shepherds and mixed breeds appear to be at a reduced risk of contracting the disease. There
does not appear to be a sex predilection but spayed females appear to develop it more often
than intact females.
What are the symptoms?
Thyroid hormones are needed for normal cellular metabolic function. A deficiency of thyroid
hormones affects the metabolic function of all organ systems. As a result, the symptoms are
usually variable and non-specific. There is not a specific symptom that is diagnostic for
hypothyroidism. There are, however, several symptoms that when combined together make
the veterinarian more suspicious of the likelihood of the animal having the disease. A study
on hypothyroid dogs revealed the following information on the variety and frequency of
symptoms seen with the disease.
How is hypothyroidism diagnosed?
There are several different tests used to diagnose hypothyroidism in the dog. The test chosen will depend on the symptoms and
the availability of different tests to your veterinarian.
Baseline T4 Test: The most common test run is the baseline T4 test. A blood sample is drawn and tested by
radioimmunoassay to determine the level of T4 thyroid hormone in the bloodstream. The T4 hormone is produced only in the
thyroid gland and dogs with a failure of the thyroid gland will have a lowered level of this hormone. However, there are other
conditions that can cause a lowering of T4 so if this screening test is positive for hypothyroidism another more specific test is
often done to confirm the diagnosis.
Free T4 by Equilibrium Dialysis: T4 is present in two forms in the body. The "bound" form is attached to proteins in the blood
and is unable to enter the cells. The "free" T4 is not attached to proteins, and can readily enter the cells and perform its
function. The free T4 is normally present in very small amounts. A special laboratory test - equilibrium dialysis - has been
designed that can quite precisely measure free T4.
TSH Level: This blood test measures the amount of TSH in the bloodstream. In a hypothyroid dog, the level will be elevated
because the body is trying to stimulate the thyroid gland to produce more thyroid hormone. If the Baseline T4 and Free T4 by
Equilibrium Dialysis are low and the TSH is elevated, a diagnosis of hypothyroidism can be made.
TSH Response Test: If a dog has a low T4 level, this test may be performed to confirm a diagnosis of hypothyroidism. A
small amount of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) is injected into the vein. After 6 hours, a blood sample is drawn and the
T4 level is checked. A dog without thyroid disease that may have other conditions causing a low T4 will have a high T4 level
after the TSH injection. A dog with true hypothyroidism will not have an increase in T4 after the injection. "

As far as nutritional factors involved in thyroid disease in dogs, nothing has been really proven. Why does one dog on the same diet as 5 other dogs in the kennel develop hypothyroidism? Is this one dog sensitive to something in the diet that is causing the thyroid gland to suppress thyroid production? Does it set off the auto immune cascade in this dog that causes thyroiditis and hypothyroidism? Do pet foods have imbalances of effective and available iodine levels that is effecting thyroid hormone production? Lack of iodine as well as over excesses of iodine in dog food can both lead to problems with thyroid hormone production. Kelp and Salmon both have high levels of iodine as well as various grains. Removing grains from diets may have an impact on iodine levels in our dog foods today. Supplementing with iodine salts may not be the best quality since iodine salts tend to be unstable.

So many things we don't know yet.

Doc

Posted by R Jerry Leviner on 01-28-2017 02:29 AM:

Correct Level?

What is the correct thyroid level in a dog? Is 1.2 normal or too low?

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 01-28-2017 06:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ahallada
The article doesn't give any scientific research to back up these claims and the author was really talking about excessive iodine levels in cat foods leading to hyperthyroidism and not hypothyroidism. There is still no study that proves that high iodine levels lead to hyperthyroidism in cats, however, feeding restricted iodine diets has returned a few hyperthyroid cats back to normal levels. In many cats, this is has not been sustained for long periods of time and the thyroid levels creep back up over a 1 to 2 year period even though they were fed the same low iodine diet. It's not as easy as it appears to figure this out.

Here is what the author said about high iodine levels in cat foods: "Seafood is a very rich source of iodine, but cats aren't designed to process a lot of iodine. Many animal nutritionists, including me, believe there's a link between cats consuming too many iodine-rich foods and hyperthyroidism."

Again this is not proven, just educated guesses at this point.

Doc

HUH??? Are we reading the same article?
Mr Leviner 1.2 is too low.

Sorry Doc but the thyroid iodine study I pasted says they conducted it with dogs not cats because of a high incidence that they noticed was occurring . You even praised it on another post that was copied and pasted from this post. It was a veterinary study not an opinion. CATS???

NO nutritional factors proven??? It is there in black and white ...Excessive iodine caused damage to the thyroid of developing puppies.
Am I missing something??
Incidently In my wanderings in research I found that cats HAD A HIGHER problem with Hyper thyroid and that some companies have introduced feed that claims low iodine content.

In other posts I have made on this I am personally aware 5 dogs kenneled side by side that are on the same feed that are failing to cycle and it began AFTER CHANGING FEEDS from one brand to another.
In another four females in the same house hold Of three different breeds on three different feeds that are not cycling properly.

You lost me bringing cats into the equation .

The second pasted article deals with.......... FISH MEAL...... being added to feeds and the probability of it containing Ethoxyquin a potentially toxic substance that is banned from use in the use in human foods yet is allowed continued use in our animal feed,And that article was about a DOG not a cat that had liver failure from it.

And regarding fish meal my research has come up with it adds omega's .There is no iodine content level that can be reliably quoted because the amount varies because it depends on what portion of the fish it is processed from.If it comes from the body the amount is lower than if it comes from the head area.
The only way quoted to be safe is if you call the feed company to see if it uses fresh fish meal or the powder one preserved with Ethoxyquin.
I have noted that Science Diet claims to use the fresh form free of Ethoxyquin.
For me... I am avoiding it entirely if it is shown to be in a feed .

Posted by ahallada on 01-28-2017 06:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
HUH??? Are we reading the same article?
Mr Leviner 1.2 is too low.

Sorry Doc but the thyroid iodine study I pasted says they conducted it with dogs not cats because of a high incidence that they noticed was occurring . It was a veterinary study not an opinion. CATS???

NO nutritional factors proven??? It is there in black and white ...Excessive iodine caused damage to the thyroid of developing puppies.
Am I missing something??
Incidently In my wanderings in research I found that cats HAD A HIGHER problem with Hyper thyroid and that some companies have introduced feed that claims low iodine content.
In other posts I have made on this I am personally aware 5 dogs kenneled side by side that are on the same feed that are failing to cycle and it began AFTER CHANGING FEEDS from one brand to another.
In another four females in the same house hold Of three different breeds on three different feeds that are not cycling properly.

You lost me bringing cats into the equation .
The second pasted article deals with fish meal being added to feeds and the probability of it containing ................. a potentially toxic substance that is banned from use in the use in human foods yet is allowed continued use in our animal feed,

I was referring to the second link above you posted. I just clicked on it again and this is the title: Warning - The Very Food Your Pet is Addicted to May Contain Deadly Ethoxyquin
January 03, 2012 | 212,585 views
by Karen Becker. She talks about the dangers of feeding fish based diets to dogs and cats because of high iodine levels and it's effects on cats thyroid health, and ethoyxyquin and Mercury toxicity in pets from ingesting high levels of certain fish foods. Here is the link you posted: http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...ein-source.aspx

You really can't do one resting T4 level on a dog and say the dog has hypothyroidism unless it has major clinic signs of hypothyroidism such as obesity, bilateral thinning of the hair coat or hair loss, chronic ear infection, chronic bladder infection etc.. and the thyroid level is severely low, below 1 with an elevated Cholesterol. Dogs resting thyroid hormone fluctuates throughout the day and from day to day. Free T4 by ED is the most accurate way of assessing thyroid hormone levels in a dog for primary hypothyroidism. Internal Medicine specialists usually look at Free T4 by ED, Resting T4, TSH, and Cholesterol levels combined with clinical signs and signalment of the patient when diagnosing true primary hypothyroidism.

Remember also that each breed has different normal values. A dog with a resting T4 of 1.5 is in the gray area for one breed, but might be normal for another breed. Again clinical signs , Cholesterol levels, and ruling out systemic disease causing euthyroid sick syndrome all need to be part of the process. It's not as easy as running your dog into the vet and having them run a quick in house resting T4 on your dog. If you are doing that , you are getting bad information. Now once a dog is on L-thyroxine , then in house resting T4 levels become more useful in monitoring the hormone levels in the body. When it comes to diagnosing hypothyroidism, it's a bit more complicated.

Doc

Posted by Pat Bizich on 01-28-2017 06:48 AM:

That is weird .I always check my links and it came up right when I posted it and it is still the same one.
It talks about fish but my main reason it also deals with Fish Meal in our dog feeds and the preservative in it.
That Vet site has a lot of good information and articles on other pet care.

Posted by ahallada on 01-28-2017 07:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
That is weird .I always check my links and it came up right when I posted it and it is still the same one.
That Vet site has a lot of good information and articles on other pet care.

Here is the link you posted that I was referring to: http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...ein-source.aspx

No big deal. We all know what you are getting at here.

I'm not saying that diet XYZ 24/20 does or does not have an issue with iodine levels. But before I post stuff like this I'd want some real concrete proof that the levels are not sufficient or they are are excessive to the point that it has the potential to cause thyroid health issues. I've never fed this particular blend to my dogs, but I've never had any issues with their other diets effecting the heat cycles or thyroid levels in my females.

I'd like to see your testing methods for diagnosing hypothyroidism in your dogs. Were they tested using in house resting T4 levels only or did they have a full comprehensive thyroid panel performed at a reference laboratory? What other clinical signs were they showing other than not cycling? Were they treated with L-thyroxine? When they were treated with L-thyroxine, did they respond to the medication and did they start to cycle regularly? Was any of the suspected food sent out for independent analysis?

Doc

Posted by Doug Terrell on 02-15-2017 11:55 PM:

Seems like more and more dogs being diagnosed with this

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Posted by Come Get Some on 02-16-2017 06:42 PM:

Thyroid

Is there any long term effect to a dog by giving it thyroid pills?

Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-27-2017 11:31 PM:

Well I guess the other post on the issue of feed and lack of heat cycles got to costly and naming certain dog feed too many times.
It was getting pretty obvious it was causing some dissention .
Got deleted.
Maybe if we keep this one clean we can continue to keep fellow hunters informed of progress of other feeds and whether they are working.
____________________________________________

Just yesterday I talked with a friend that has 5 females that were not cycling properly.
He sold one in August.He informed the purchaser that she had been exhibiting short cycles.
The buyer was using a different feed.
Guess what ? It is now six months later.This female is now in full blown heat!!!!
Without mentioning any brands. It all still fits!!!!!!

Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-28-2017 03:13 PM:

The other post was deleted so I an repeating this information .It will help you make more informed decisions when selecting a feed.
Right, wrong, or indifferent. At least you will have the knowledge.
(I already mentioned I have a habit of over thinking and asking too many questions at times ,)
______________________________________________

The thyroid issue seems to have gotten worse in the last 7-10 years. The following report may explain a reason.....

"COPIED FROM A PUBLIC AAFCO REPORT"

(I emphasized some areas for your attention")
-------------------------------------------------------------

COMPANIES "may choose", or may need, to perform
additional testing "to substantiate" their claims.

The 2007 CNES revised the maximum concentration for iodine based on the following considerations.
_________________________________________

Although' neither' the 2005 Mineral Tolerances for Animals
nor the 2006 Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats 'established a tolerance or SUL for iodine' 'in diets' for 'dogs', both publications cite data that indicate a commercial formulation" containing 5.6 mg iodine/kg diet " had "adverse effects on thyroid "function.
____________________________________________

FEDIAF also notes these studies, but faulted the studies for using a diet deficient in calcium, phosphorus and potassium, and fed in excessive quantities. "IF YOU READ THE STUDY ,THIS STATEMENT DOES NOT FIT!!!"
One control group was a commercial diet.

____________________________________________

The 2008 FEDIAF Guidelines indicate a maximum concentration for iodine of 11 mg/kg DM when other minerals are within acceptable concentrations and the products are fed in appropriate quantities. "APPROPRIATE QUANTITIES??? THEY ALREADY CITED 11MG BASED ON PER KG OF FEED"
READ THIS NEXT PORTION CAREFULLY........
The tolerances for iodine in the 2005 Mineral Tolerances of
Animals that have been established for various species range from 5 mg/kg DM in diets for horses (HORSES LOOK AT THE LIMIT )to 400 mg/kg DM in diets for swine.(EVEN SWINE ARE WAY LESS!!!)
Given that the NRC tolerance for horses is 10 times less than the general maximum concentration of 50 mg iodine/kg DM recommended by AAFCO (THEY SAID IT,THEY HAD RECCOMMENDED IT AND NOW FOUND IT TO BE WRONG.TOO HIGH), the 2007 CNES felt the value of 50 mg/kg DM to no longer be appropriate for setting a maximum concentration for iodine in dog foods.
(THEY HAD A 50mg/KG in DOG FOOD THE SAME AS A HORSE!!)
______________________________________________

The 2007 CNES acknowledges that additional studies may allow further refinement of a maximum amount of iodine in foods for dogs, but until such data are available the
CNES felt it prudent to adopt the FEDIAF position and set 11 mg iodine per kg DM as the maximum concentration of iodine in dog foods.
NOTE THEY ADOPTED THE 11 MG/KG WITHOUT ANY INFORMATION TO BACK IT UP AS A SUL.

1)The FEDIAF is a European council equivalent to AAFCO.
2)AAFCO nutritional committees are made up volunteers that meet on regular basis.They are not paid experts.As a matter of fact "ANYONE" may apply to serve on the committee.
3) If you have problems with your feed you must contact your state agricultural dept or whom ever oversees the dog food quality in your state.
In most cases they have adopted the AAFCO recommendations.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-28-2017 03:57 PM:

Ingredients that you may want to avoid.

1) KELP...Raises the iodine level .Unless it is manufactured and constantly tested .The iodine content can fluctuate from one batch to the next.
2) FISHMEAL...Added for omegas and protein. Once again contains high sources of iodine.It can not be reliably tested and no data given for iodine content.It depends on if it comes from the head area or other body parts.So content will fluctuate with each batch.All fish and parts not destined for human consumption.
Also the preservative in it has been out lawed in any food for human consumption as it contains.All fish meal not destined for human consumption must be conserved with Ethoxyquin Originally developed by Monsanto as a stabilizer for rubber, Ethoxyquin has also been used as a pesticide for fruit and a color preservative for spices, and later for animal feed. The original FDA permit for use as stabilizer in animal feed limited use to two years and did not include pet food, but it falls under the same legal category. It has never been proven to be safe for the lifespan of a companion animal.It has been linked to thyroid, kidney,liver, reproductive and immune related illnesses as well as cancer,
3) ANIMAL DIGEST....The Big 4 D's .May contain dead,dying,diseased,disabled,road kill,euthanized animals (dogs and cats) from pet shelters.
I mentioned I knew this to be true in the other post. A former dog catcher I know took all his euthanized animals to a meat rendering plant near me.As he put it"Ever hear of dog eat dog?"
Also as some of you may have heard of the dog food recall of feed tainted with phenobarbital .That is how it got into the feed.
4) CORN OR WHEAT GLUTEN .....only mention this because it is usually one of the top 5 ingredients Can't avoid it as my post suggest.It has no nutritional value.It is a by product of the processing of corn and wheat.Its use is to bind the feed into the nuggets. Basically it is a glue of sorts.

I will post more later

Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2017 04:14 PM:

I ain't taking one side or the other but I in a lifetime have owned and or hunted probly at least 500 or more dogs and have fed every kind of feed there is I eat corn and fish regular and like my fish fryed in cornmeal in corn oil and I am fat no thyroid issues and my colesterol is perfect and I never owned a thyroid dog if they did not hunt right if worming or antibiotics didn't fix it I just figured they weren't no count and culled them the thyroid thing is man made they are giving it to them to juice them up then when they win people breed to them that's the problem it ain't the feed its man made the feed thing is bs I know people that are feeding the feeds in question and they are getting pups and their dogs don't have thyroid but I know one bloodline that has thyroid issues and passes it on and if you knew the rest of the story you would know why jmo.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-28-2017 04:45 PM:

I am open to all opinions .
You say it is man made.Could you please explain in what way?
Please tell us more.
I have spoken with too many to remember that dogs with normal or abnormal cycles suddenly changed when feeds were changed.
What would be your explanation for this please ?
I keep saying this is not something I just started investigating.About three years now.
You are right though not all dogs have problems on certain feed that others are.
I keep saying just as we all don't react to different influences neither do our dogs.
Some people have gluten intolerance,allergies,asthma,others don't
I believe it to be the same with dogs.
Unfortunately dog feed companies are allowed to put" KNOWN" poisons into our dog feed .
Every time I encounter someone that says they are not having any problems or they are I start bombarding them with questions.Yeah I am a real pest.LOL
As far as hereditary Thyroid issues.If anyone has followed the other post that was deleted...Let me refresh...

Once a dog has developed thyroid dysfunction it becomes an inheritable trait .
The study cited showed excessive iodine caused damage to the thyroid in developing puppies in about 6 weeks.
Those pups would all likely go on to be thyroid dogs and now pass it on to their pups.

Dogs with sick thyroid from tick disease ,etc once the under lying issue is resolved .The thyroid in most cases returned to normal function.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-28-2017 04:50 PM:

Hey did I mention I saw a big foot last week getting out a space ship.Man what an experience.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2017 05:01 PM:

Here it is if a women is hooked on crack while she is pregnate her baby will be to same thing these dogs 4 and five yrs old that haven't been bred a handful of times going sterile they are juicing them to handle the riggers of the road and the competition trail that's what's creating a lot of health issues we have had bad feed , ticks ,parvo , mosquitoes , ect ect long as I can remember but what brought on all these issues ain't got nothing to do with that any good dog man can see it when you pull them out of the box all thems eyes run out on the stems barking every time they're feet hit the ground running all over the place in all different directions leaving trees when they are together they try and whoop each other might have a coon might not you tell me if I was a breeder I don't think I could breed for all that crap to happen on purpose they are getting some help lol.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-28-2017 06:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Here it is if a women is hooked on crack while she is pregnate her baby will be to same thing these dogs 4 and five yrs old that haven't been bred a handful of times going sterile they are juicing them to handle the riggers of the road and the competition trail that's what's creating a lot of health issues we have had bad feed , ticks ,parvo , mosquitoes , ect ect long as I can remember but what brought on all these issues ain't got nothing to do with that any good dog man can see it when you pull them out of the box all thems eyes run out on the stems barking every time they're feet hit the ground running all over the place in all different directions leaving trees when they are together they try and whoop each other might have a coon might not you tell me if I was a breeder I don't think I could breed for all that crap to happen on purpose they are getting some help lol.

Absolutely .Agree 100% with you there.
You can't breed what is man made.
You can perpetuate garbage in garbage out.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-28-2017 08:52 PM:

Okay people, as promised here is some more good reading information on diet (DOG FOOD) related thyroid issues in dogs.I wanted to copy and paste but did not know if I should.

PLEASE READ IT THROUGHLY!!!!

http://truthaboutpetfood.com/diet-r...yperthyroidism/

For the adventuresome go to the home page. .Go through the information page by page that is available.
Excellent reading.

Posted by joey on 02-28-2017 10:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I ain't taking one side or the other but I in a lifetime have owned and or hunted probly at least 500 or more dogs and have fed every kind of feed there is I eat corn and fish regular and like my fish fryed in cornmeal in corn oil and I am fat no thyroid issues and my colesterol is perfect and I never owned a thyroid dog if they did not hunt right if worming or antibiotics didn't fix it I just figured they weren't no count and culled them the thyroid thing is man made they are giving it to them to juice them up then when they win people breed to them that's the problem it ain't the feed its man made the feed thing is bs I know people that are feeding the feeds in question and they are getting pups and their dogs don't have thyroid but I know one bloodline that has thyroid issues and passes it on and if you knew the rest of the story you would know why jmo.

Tar, that makes no sense at all. No one is giving a dog a thyroid pill to Juice it up. It doesn't do that at all. If you give them the pill and they don't need it then it makes it to high and screws them up. You said you assumed it was no count and culled them. People learned that there are a lot of medical problems that cause dogs to not operate. Thyroid being one of them. People used to do just what you said now they have enough sense to take it to the vet and they learned they have thyroid problems. I would love to think its the food, I can change that. The hard truth is its our breeding practices. We like to call it line breeding. Truth is its inbreeding and in the long term it causes health problems.

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2017 11:03 PM:

Joey it came from a guy that does it it's no different than athletes doping for better performance it's steroids plain and simple that's why a lot of those dogs burn out young you can belive what you want why do you think they test race horses , mma fighters , different athletes all they would have to do is announce at a major hunt the would have random drug test you would see who was doing it or not because they wouldn't show. But don't listen to old tar till you draw one of them you will be able to tell the difference.

Posted by joey on 02-28-2017 11:58 PM:

I have no doubt that they are doping dogs but they are not using thyroid pills. If they are they are wasting their time. My gyp has a thyroid issue. I have owned or hunted with almost every dog in her pedigree. Trust me there was no performance enhancing drugs used by any of them.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-01-2017 12:07 AM:

Just know what I was told. I have never seen a dog with it but a dog with it would be useless to me they are breeding to one like crazy right now with it I just don't think it's fair to blame it on other things when you are knowlingly breeding to one with it I would rather have a coondog without it if I ever get one with it no matter how good it is it will be taken out of the gene pool by me.

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