UKC Forums - Let me hear your opinion on Brains when it comes to Hounds?

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-- Let me hear your opinion on Brains when it comes to Hounds? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928464022)

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-08-2016 05:56 PM:

Let me hear your opinion on Brains when it comes to Hounds?

Is Brains in a dog just an overall opinion when you have a dog that puts together the different things it is suppose to do.

I think Brains or Smartness in our hounds is something that should be able to be evaluated, measured and put in a tangible form. Then used to see if dogs deemed to be smart make better coon hounds.

How many have a pup that will go through a gate then down a fence line and then bark to get to the other side and not go back to the gate. How about a pup that goes up steps and barks because it don't know how to get down them. Does any of this relate to future performance?

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 10-08-2016 06:24 PM:

pups

have hunted a lot pups!! but brain dept to me is different!! depends on what your looking for in brain dept!!for performance!! all depends what the dog is breed for/ to perform. some dogs has the natural ability to perform! we call it brains!!some dogs you gotta train!! drags/cage coon/hunt with others/ marshmillows some will say these are smart!! maybe so but its got to be trained to perform!!so which one has more intellence the one that has to be trained or the one that!! most things comes natural!!jmo

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 10-08-2016 06:31 PM:

lol

absolutely just because a pup is smart dosnt mean it will make a coon dog Bruce!!but if it has the smarts to go with all that stuff it takes to make a good coon dog!!! it sure helps!! from strike to tree!!had had some pretty dumb dogs that made the grade!!because they had the natural ability!!!dang thing things get eat up by a coon and not turn loose!! not to smart!!lol

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 10-08-2016 06:37 PM:

Sure don't know much about brains since I have been hunting since I was 8 and now am 67 but to me the smart hound is the one that gets better night after night. By that I mean they seem to be able to use what they experienced the night before to help them the next night. They have the instinct to run and tree but brains is what makes them get really good at it. Along that line I think the dog that consistently trees where there is no coon is just not very smart.

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Posted by mr taylor on 10-08-2016 06:38 PM:

Most Hounds out there today don't have any Brains so to speak .

Posted by Travis Brown on 10-08-2016 06:42 PM:

I would be careful that what I used as an intelligence test fit in with the skills I needed the dog to have. For example, I wouldn't measure a kids ability to read by giving them a math test. I wouldn't want to test a hounds intelligence in categories that weren't going to help it be successful in being a good coonhound.

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Posted by Jeff Prince on 10-08-2016 06:42 PM:

I've never seen one who had both brains and desire not make a good coon treer. This includes many non-coonhound breeds.

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 10-08-2016 06:47 PM:

I think they learn thru repetition, good and bad. I've never seen a hound a thought was " collie dog smart "

I guess the smarter they are the less repititions it takes to teach em. Jmo

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Posted by chip johnson on 10-08-2016 07:13 PM:

breeding for brains- just a over used term. How many dogs has anyone ever seen that isn't smarter than the trainer.lol

Posted by yadkintar on 10-08-2016 07:25 PM:

I think what Bruce talking about is dogs that have it !! Not taught it ! Born with it !! And from the first time you start hunting them you realize it !! Like having one that trees so hard they have wet slobbers on both shoulders but would trail right past three dogs doing the same never throw a locate and go on and have the coon because the others were slick !! Like three dogs going one way on track the it dog going the other having the coon the others on a slick or a den !! Like three very loud dogs striking and treeing slicks and circles up and down the creeks and the it dog popping coons left and right on the fence rows all around them I have owned several of the it dogs but I have owned more of the dogs without brains.

Posted by Well Started on 10-08-2016 07:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Sure don't know much about brains since I have been hunting since I was 8 and now am 67 but to me the smart hound is the one that gets better night after night. By that I mean they seem to be able to use what they experienced the night before to help them the next night. They have the instinct to run and tree but brains is what makes them get really good at it. Along that line I think the dog that consistently trees where there is no coon is just not very smart.

^^^ This is definitely part of it. I struggle to put my finger on the whole answer. But I seen some real smart dogs show that intelligence consistently in the woods. There's not a doubt in my mind that intelligence made them much better. Where to hunt, how to hunt, when to keep their mouth shut, looping back into an area after finding nothing better and bee lining too, and setting up treed with a coon on a tough tree they had previously passed on, looking for something better. Everything just falls in place for them. I've said before that the right dogs make their own luck. Some pups just seem to never miss an opportunity.

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Posted by Well Started on 10-08-2016 07:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Sure don't know much about brains since I have been hunting since I was 8 and now am 67 but to me the smart hound is the one that gets better night after night. By that I mean they seem to be able to use what they experienced the night before to help them the next night. They have the instinct to run and tree but brains is what makes them get really good at it. Along that line I think the dog that consistently trees where there is no coon is just not very smart.

^^^ This is definitely part of it. I struggle to put my finger on the whole answer. But I seen some real smart dogs show that intelligence consistently in the woods. There's not a doubt in my mind that intelligence made them much better. Were to hunt, how to hunt, when to keep their mouth shut, looping back into an area after finding nothing better and bee lining too, and setting up treed with a coon on a tough tree they had previously passed on, looking for something better. Everything just falls in place for them. I've said before that the right dogs make their own luck. Some pups just seem to never miss an opportunity.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-08-2016 09:16 PM:

You can see it in pups in their natural ability to solve problems when navigating their surrounds and the ease it takes to teach them commands. Does it mean that they will grow up to be coon dogs, NO but it sure doesn't hurt. We've all witnessed coon treers who would drive you crazy and if you've been lucky a coon treer who uses his brain both in handling, at the house and using these smarts in the woods to increase his ability. If you spend alot of time observing young pups in the woods and in yard work certain things just begun to shine, it's not just a couple of things you can put your finger on but easy to spot at the same time.

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Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 10-08-2016 09:32 PM:

Bruce , Good post. I believe smart makes all the difference, in enjoying a line of hounds over a long time period. If they don't have it they will play out.
What is Puppy smarts? To me it is a dog that carries itself well, makes eye contact with its master, so you know it wants to please.
Is clean in its area,not walking in crap etc...
Does not panic at everything strange.
Learns from correction only after a time or two.
I also like a pup when with the litter walking or playing likes to lead(competitive)
My son has a male 16 months old that is treeing coons nightly, he never needs a leash, when he trees he is intense but he can call him to him 15 ft off and tell him to sit. He will fetch and sleeps in a recliner.lol Now thats a fun smart hound

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Posted by SwampCreekHound on 10-08-2016 09:53 PM:

I think with people what i call brains is common sense. Any man with common sense and want to can be taught any trade work. With that being said most people will be better at one than they are at other trades but with desire and want to can learn any trade. I am a body man now and make a good wage doing it but i am a better welder than body man.

I believe dogs to be the same. Some are great in one area of being a coon hound and slack in other areas. Few i have owned or seen are/were balanced dogs and i say them have coon sense. A dog that don't have enough sense to shut up when told, come when called, or not walk in their own crap stands little chance to be a well rounded coon treeing machine in my opinion. I coon hunt for pure pleasure and nothing is worst than a dumb hound.

Posted by Steve Fielder on 10-08-2016 09:56 PM:

Bruce, I'm on Terry Walker's deadline this weekend and can't elaborate but I would love to respond to this thread. The subject is near and dear to my heart. Intelligence is very important to me. Hounds are much more intelligent than some may think. Sometimes they are too smart.

Intelligence in one area may not relate to performance in another.

Some dogs stumble into coon tracks and tree them. Intelligent dogs rely on memory to know where to strike a coon. One example.

That said, all the good dogs I have had over the years were intelligent dogs.

I look forward to responding more. Great topic!

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Posted by J I Allen on 10-08-2016 11:49 PM:

I think what you people are calling brains in a dog, is what we old timers referred to as a dog having "coon sense". Some have it and some don't.

Posted by crooked ridge on 10-09-2016 12:20 AM:

I believe a smart dog has more (want to please) and when it learns what you want and expect, excels.

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-09-2016 02:50 PM:

Crooked Ridge now we are getting somewhere. 10,000 squirrel dogs prove your point.

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 10-09-2016 03:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by J I Allen
I think what you people are calling brains in a dog, is what we old timers referred to as a dog having "coon sense". Some have it and some don't.

I agree.

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Posted by Darrell Eads on 10-09-2016 03:44 PM:

a intelligent dog seems to respond to corrections , if a dog pays attention when your telling it NO and doesn't make the mistake again he has Brains ,

Drive Desire Heart and ability cant be taught ,
a dog can only be as smart as the owner lets him be , daily interaction , Hands on Talking to him , can define a dogs Intelligence ,

but I bet all dogs with a Brain will still roll in in stinky nasty dead stuff they find in the woods , are they still considered to have a Brain ?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-09-2016 03:52 PM:

Brains are hard to define, a dog that responds well to training and is pleasant to be around may make your time in the woods more enjoyable but in my opinion those characteristics have little to do with the talent required to be a real deal coondog. The best one I ever snapped a lead on was dumb as a post, crapped is his feed dish on a regular basis, wouldn't walk three feet for a pat on the head, never gave any indication that he even knew his name BUT he knew where to find a coon,could run a track in any conditions, he knew when to shut up and drift on out there and how to put a tree with a coon in it on the end a high percentage of the time.....Stupid in the daylight but pretty sharp when the sun went down.

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Posted by critter on 10-09-2016 05:13 PM:

intelligence

For many years i believed brains or intelligence was the key factor in a hound.I now believe brains AND desire are equally important in making a top hound.A true natural has both.

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Posted by Well Started on 10-09-2016 05:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Brains are hard to define, a dog that responds well to training and is pleasant to be around may make your time in the woods more enjoyable but in my opinion those characteristics have little to do with the talent required to be a real deal coondog. The best one I ever snapped a lead on was dumb as a post, crapped is his feed dish on a regular basis, wouldn't walk three feet for a pat on the head, never gave any indication that he even knew his name BUT he knew where to find a coon,could run a track in any conditions, he knew when to shut up and drift on out there and how to put a tree with a coon in it on the end a high percentage of the time.....Stupid in the daylight but pretty sharp when the sun went down.

I agree. The former is personality, the latter is brains. Just because a dog does something like stomp in its own crap doesn't mean its stupid. It could be something as simple as it just doesn't care, or it could be because it's always that wound up it just doesn't notice. I can say that dogs that act like that I don't generally like and if I don't like them it makes it more difficult to make a dog out of them.

I typically demand a certain level of the former, and wait for 1 that adds more of the latter to come along. Usually results in a dog that is gonna be real hard for me to turn loose of.

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 10-09-2016 06:23 PM:

Allot of the dogs I see are driven by desire and genetics and not by brains, there is a big difference in my opinion, but that is just my opinion

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