UKC Forums - How do you pick a Redbone Stud...whats your criteria?

Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Show all 44 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51)
-- How do you pick a Redbone Stud...whats your criteria? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928445012)

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-28-2016 05:20 PM:

How do you pick a Redbone Stud...whats your criteria?

I have hunted with some nice male dogs over the past few years. Some I had read about and heard described by others and found the dogs to generally match the description...and a few others did not. I think this is mostly do to differing opinions and not so much as an intent to mislead anyone. Some folks just dont get out and get to hunt with a lot of dogs across the country and see just how loud or how fast or how hard a dog trees etc to be able to compare theirs side by side.
I was just wondering how many people give more weight to what they actually see in the stud dog himself vs what they actually see from his offspring?
Which do you find a more reliable indicator of what your actually going to get when you breed?
I have bred to dogs before that I didnt particularly care for in some ways or was less than impressed with when I hunted with them...but was really impressed with several offspring after hunting with them.
Has anyone else experienced this?
I kind of fall into the group that feels like you rarely get copies of the dog you breed to...and what you usually get is something more like the majority of his offspring....which may be more to my liking.
As many of you know...me and some of the guys I work with on breeding mostly concentrate on the female side of things because we feel its been a weak spot in the breed for a long time. We try to plan our next few breeding out well ahead of when they will take place. We have several pretty well known studs ( not all are proven to reproduce yet) on our radar. There are quite a few things to consider before we make the final call on what to actually breed each one to. I wish that the politics and hard feelings by some in the breed who disagree with some of what we do were not a factor...but I have to be honest and say that it does get in the way because it makes communication difficult.
So thats one area I wish things would change because there are a few dogs we would like to seriously consider when and if it does.
But all that being said...how simple....or how difficult is it for others who have a nice female to pick a stud. It seems like I end up doing a lot of homework, weighing the pro's and con's and everyone involved ...not just the dogs before I make my final decision. To me its very important to grow the team and the breed. And by that I just mean to find people we can work with instead of just breed to their dog. I think when two successful lines are crossed...the supporters of both lines should be excited about the cross and both groups should want to do what they can to help promote the cross and not just claim it for one side or the other like one parent didnt matter as much as the other.
So lets hear how you folks feel about making a cross. Maybe I over think a lot of this stuff and others have a more streamlined approach to how they do it.
One thing is for sure...I never want to sacrifice anything in a cross just because the research and leg work to make it happen is to costly or arduous.
I think making the right cross is where it all begins and if done right...great things will come from it...what say you?

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-28-2016 05:54 PM:

I tend to stick with studs that I know both them and their offspring. That is probably not such a good thing as you don't get "new blood" and it narrows your choices. I look at papers, traits, families/relatives and offspring; not neccesarily in that order. Since I like to stick with studs that I know, I don't have to put much stock in what I "hear". But then I don't breed/raise that many pups. I hunted with Boone a bunch since he was young before I got him. I also hunted with several of his offspring. I hunted with his sire a bunch and "knew" about his mother and her pedigree. I hunted with Jim a bunch since he was very young and some of his offspring before we got Kat to breed to Boone. I researced the B III X Heidi cross also. I hunted with several of the Steve-O X Chilli cross and even owned one of them. I hunted with Steve-O himself and liked what I saw. I researched their pedigree. So it was a no brainer to also get a nice Steve-O X Chilli female to cross with Boone. Because I stick with studs that I know, I also know their owners so I don't have to worry about that.
If you haven't been hunting with that many Redbones and just have a female that you want to breed, then the choices and all of the "advice" can be overwhelming. As Shane suggested, start 6 months to a year ahead of time looking for a stud. Don't wait until she comes in heat. That is my "advice".

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-29-2016 12:37 AM:

Im allways looking for the next stud. My criteria is the same as many. Must come from a family of strong reproducers and winners. I look for dogs/lines that produce above average type of dogs too. Not just mediocre NtChs. I look for dogs/lines that will strenghten what I have with similar traits but never the same faults. I tend to choose studs by hunting with them or thier offspring usually. I will also listen to opinions from people I trust and that know what a high level hound should be. Too many factors to list that I use in choosing studs really. All anyone can do is try and stack the deck in thier favor when breeding. The proof is allways in the pudding though. Working on training what will hopefully be my 4th generation of GrNt now. She has the goods just needs some more tuning and singled out. Just happens to be out of an unadvertised stud too. Lol. Its getting to be now that if I havent hunted with a stud or his offspring I probally have hunted with his sire and dam or even well before that. Some lines tend to carry similar traits throughout and like most I have certain bloodlines that seem to suit me best. I am allways looking in any lines though.

__________________
------------------------------------------------
WATTS FLATS REDBONE KENNELS
Owner: Adam Frary
Home#(814)664-9694
Cell#(716)338-7372
Home of:
(R.I.P.) GRNITECH CH 'PR' WATTS FLATS FATTY PATTY
(2006 Overall Southern Redbone Champion)
(GrNtCh winner and High scoring dog Sat night with 1100+/75-)
(2005 Qualified for UKC World)
(2006 Qualified for UKC World)
(2006 Autumn Oaks GrNtCh cast winner)
(PKC Money Winner)

GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' WATTS FLATS JUMP'EM UP JEB HTX-3 (DNA-P)
( Out of Patty and Lash's Rowdy)
(2008 Qualified for UKC World)
(1st Place GrNt and Overall High-Scoring Dog at the 2009 PA Governers Cup)
(1st place NtCh and Overall High-Scoring Dog at the 2008 NYS Battle of the Breeds Hunt)
(1st place Reg. Ny State Spring Championship)
(3rd place Reg. 2008 National Redbone Days, Fri night)
(2nd place Reg. BBOA Zone hunt)
(PKC Money Winner)

(R.I.P.) GRNITECH 'PR' WATTS FLATS MUDDY CREEK MAGGIE HTX-2 (DNA-P)
(Out of Jeb and Hiedi)
(2013 Qualified for World Championship)
(2015 Qualified for World Championship)
(2013 Ohio Gov Cup- NiteCh winner and Overall opposite sex winner)
(2014 National Redbone Days High-scoring female and 3rd place overall Thurs night)
(PKC Money Winner)

+ Upcoming:
'PR' WATTS FLATS STATELINE SALLY
(Maggie X Moon)

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-29-2016 12:56 AM:

I had a good feeling about your Maggie x Moon cross. I love that old Timber Jack x Outlaw Jesse blood. We are looking at working some back into our line also. Good luck with here.

Posted by oklared on 02-29-2016 05:34 PM:

BEST TO THE BEST=BEST CHANCE, JMO

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-29-2016 05:53 PM:

Best to the best, now why didn't I think of that. It sounds so easy. BUT.....how do you decide which one is the best?

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-29-2016 06:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Best to the best, now why didn't I think of that. It sounds so easy. BUT.....how do you decide which one is the best?

All you have to do is ask his owner....

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-29-2016 06:44 PM:

All right owners, which Redbone stud is the "best" one out there? Wendy will be coming in heat in a couple of months. I think that she is the "best" female out there so I want to breed her to the "best" stud so that i will get the "best" pups. So, who has the "best" stud right now? And please, no walkers or dead ones. The choices are hard enough with the Redbones that are alive. And no PM's please, I would like to be able to read them on this post.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-29-2016 07:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
All right owners, which Redbone stud is the "best" one out there? Wendy will be coming in heat in a couple of months. I think that she is the "best" female out there so I want to breed her to the "best" stud so that i will get the "best" pups. So, who has the "best" stud right now? And please, no walkers or dead ones. The choices are hard enough with the Redbones that are alive. And no PM's please, I would like to be able to read them on this post.

Hey now....
There is nothing wrong with dead studs who still have live frozen semen.....
Just think of all the big winners of the past several years would never have happened without frozen semen...John Henry, Amber, Cloud, G Man, Cherry Bomb, Mac and many more...

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-29-2016 07:23 PM:

Just picking a live one is hard enough. When you throw in the dead ones it gets almost impossible. Besides, with them, you are truly just asking the owner and sometimes the owner isn't even still around. I don't know if it is true for all of them but my daddy once told me that the deader they were, the better they were. I know that I sure do like Ol' Mongo and Lil Zack a lot more now than when I was having to hunt them every night.

And look at my "criteria" above. Aren't those dogs that you mentioned better than their daddy? Don't you think that they will reproduce even better? Mac for instance has not only BTK but also Ranger and Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-29-2016 07:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Just picking a live one is hard enough. When you throw in the dead ones it gets almost impossible. Besides, with them, you are truly just asking the owner and sometimes the owner isn't even still around. I don't know if it is true for all of them but my daddy once told me that the deader they were, the better they were. I know that I sure do like Ol' Mongo and Lil Zack a lot more now than when I was having to hunt them every night.

You dont get the dead dog...you get what he reproduces...but its a personal preferrence. Goes to the heart of this threads real question.
So does that mean that when Boone is gone you wont be using his frozen semen on any good females? I think that would be a shame. Many studs never get on the radar till they are dead and gone.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-29-2016 07:32 PM:

Lets hear some good studs people would reccomend to Richard. Hope you find one that makes a home run buddy!

Posted by OLD TIMER on 02-29-2016 07:42 PM:

One I feel would carry on the "traits" behind your hounds

Justin DeHass Rowdy would add to what Tom had in his kennel

Brains nose looks voice

__________________
OLD TIMER

Posted by Tony Dominguez on 02-29-2016 07:48 PM:

I have a couple crosses in mind that are young dogs & would make super crosses! I go by what dogs are reproducing & also how it's littermates were... I feel if you breed 2 dogs that come from a successful litter & a line of reproducers you're chances are better!

Just a few I'd like to see made:

G-Man x Breanna
G-Man x Dew
G-Man x Front Seat Fanny
Moonshine x Cherry Bomb
Moonshine x Billy Jean
Moonshine x Breeze
Mac x Pistol
Mac x Caroline
Doctor Feelgood x Trip
Doc x Pistol
Rocky x Breeze
Sandy Creek Jake x Cali
Danno x Cali
Turkey x Breeze
Turkey x Zoe

I know I'm leaving out some very top females & males but I think these would make some hot crosses

__________________
Tony Dominguez
407 E. Clarksville st
Jefferson, Tx 75657
903-650-4495 call/txt anytime
Banshee Coon Squaller
Eukanuba Dog food

Redbone:
All Grand Outlaw G-Man
GRNITECH
GRAND SHOW CH
CHKC GRCH (all time $ leader)
PKC PLATINUM CH (all time $ leader)
2016 RESERVE FALL SUPER STAKE CH (only redbone to ever make the final 4)

Grnitech PKC CH Night Stalkin roxie
2018 top 16 PKC redbone breed
2018 Top 16 PA state race
2019 National Redbone days Champion

Walker:
UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Frost Bite Zoey

UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Dirty Little Tramp
Russ Myer hunt winner $20,000
Final 4 PKC super stakes

Past:
GOLD CH GRCH GRNITECH Classy Cali
GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Outlaw Jack
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Apache Man
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Famous Outlaw Ann
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Tree Burning Moses

Posted by D.Hicks on 02-29-2016 07:52 PM:

trade

Richard , bring her up here to Dudley you have hunted with him. then we will let Boone have his way with Musicmaker next time she comes in.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-29-2016 07:59 PM:

There will be the Boone X Toadie males, the Boone X Wendy males, the Boone X Fixin males, the Boone X Pebbles males and several more. I especially like the Bruiser male that Jared has now. But you are right it is just a matter of personal preference. Everyone has their own opinion. I know that I am in the minority on this as usual.

Posted by ken johnson on 03-01-2016 01:06 AM:

My stud dog pick was....

Gr.nt.ch. Crooked River Red turkey was bred to Nt.ch. Rockers Mississippi Queen for the following reasons, now let me say this.. I have never seen Turkey go.. But I sure have heard a lot of respectable redbone men say pretty much the same things about this dog, very fast track dog, very good well above average nose, I've heard he can smell a track that a lot of other dogs can't , very athletic, highly intelligent. There are a couple (4) maybe, litters out of this dog, and Several will hit the hunts this fall. I like what I've been hearing for the last 2 yrs about this dog, I know his owner has very high expectations for dogs that eat in his kennel. My female is a very accurate tree dog , she could use a little track speed, she is a medium to hot nosed dog, she can be independent, and other times get some of yours. So.. All in all... I think this breeding ( half brother/half sister ) will produce speed, more nose, tree dogs for sure .

Posted by oklared on 03-01-2016 05:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Best to the best, now why didn't I think of that. It sounds so easy. BUT.....how do you decide which one is the best?

SO COME WITH A BETTER IDEA AND LET US CHECK IT OUT

Posted by ahallada on 03-01-2016 06:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
All right owners, which Redbone stud is the "best" one out there? Wendy will be coming in heat in a couple of months. I think that she is the "best" female out there so I want to breed her to the "best" stud so that i will get the "best" pups. So, who has the "best" stud right now? And please, no walkers or dead ones. The choices are hard enough with the Redbones that are alive. And no PM's please, I would like to be able to read them on this post.

Take your pick Richard. Can't go wrong with any of these up and comers.

__________________
Dr. Allen Hallada (Doc Halladay)

Current:

PKC Ch. Gr.Nt.Ch. Cat Scratch Fever
(Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Moonlight Aftershock x Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Breanna)
2016 Finished to PKC Ch. in one week!

Dual Grand Champion CHKC Ch., PKC Gold Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man
(Gr.Nt.Ch.Glissens JJ Jr. x Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Billy Jean)
4 Generations of All Grand Nite Champions!
Timber Jack 3X and Timber Chopper over 30X
2019 Southern National Redbone Days Champion
2016 National Grand Nite Champion Redbone
2016 CHKC Redbone Days Champion
2016 PKC Super Stakes Reserve Champion
2016 CHKC Elite Shootout Winner - Texas
CHKC All Time Money Winning Redbone

Bodacious
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch.PKC. Gold Ch.CHKC CH. Outlaw G-Man x Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. CHKC Ch., PKC Gold Ch. Classy Cali)

Past:
Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch. Dawns Timber Jack
1988 American Redbone Days All Red Hunt Winner
1989 UKC World Champion Redbone
1989 Purina Outstanding Redbone Coonhound
#2 Historic Redbone Sire/ Top 20 All Breeds
American Redbone Coonhound Assoc. Hall of Fame

Gr.Nt.Ch. Bussrow Bottom Brandy II
1991 American Redbone Days Champion
1992 AKC World Champion Redbone
1992 ACHA World Champion Redbone
1992 Wisconsin State Champion
1994 US Redbone Days Opposite Sex
Produced 2 Nt. Ch. , 1 Gr.Nt.Ch. out of 2 litters and two Redbone Days Winners

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. PKC Gold Ch. Layton's Classy Cali
2012 UKC World Champion Redbone and 7th Place Overall
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 UKC World Champion Redbone Female
2015 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Hunt Winner - Goodsprings, AL
2015 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Series Race - 3rd Place Overall
2016 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Hunt Winner - New Albany, MS
2016 PKC Texas State Race Winner
2016 PKC Redbone Breed Race Winner
PKC All Time Money Winning Redbone

PKC Ch. Gr.Nt.Ch. Coffman's Smokin Red Buck
2016 UKC World Hunt 5th Place and World Champion Redbone
2016 National Redbone Days Overall Winner

Gr.Nt.Ch. Reinhart's Central Page
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Brandy II)

Gr.Nt.Ch. Too the Maxx
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Jenkins Crying Katie)
1992 National Redbone Days Champion

Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Ambraw River Rock
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Hersh's Huntin Red Kate)
1992 US Redbone Days Opposite Sex

Nt.Ch. Tree Bustin Annabelle
1986 American Redbone Days All Red Hunt Winner

Nt.Ch. Timber Mace
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack X Nt.Ch. Tree Bustin Annabelle)
Mother of Gr.Nt.Ch. Babb's Hazel

Nt. Ch. Timber Shock
(Gr.Nt.Ch.Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Jessie)

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Squaw Mountain Goldie
(Direct Daughter of Gr.Nt.Ch.Smokey Mountain Brandy)
1990 Autumn Oaks Best of Show Winner
1988 Indiana State Champion

Posted by ken johnson on 03-01-2016 11:24 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony Dominguez
[B]I have a couple crosses in mind that are young dogs & would make super crosses! I go by what dogs are reproducing & also how it's littermates were... I feel if you breed 2 dogs that come from a successful litter & a line of reproducers you're chances are better.

I'm not sure how many titled dogs were in turkeys litter, I know of Grntch Stone cold Mack, and these are off of a reproducing stud( Rocker ). Now on Ntch queens side , there is Dew, which I think is a $kc ch, 1 win away from being a ntch. I think I heard mr. Royce Taylor has a ntch female , and there is Grntch Moonshine. So I'm thinking this litter should be super, apparently some others do too, 8 are spoken for as of now.

Posted by lazyoutlaw on 03-01-2016 11:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
Hey now....
There is nothing wrong with dead studs who still have live frozen semen.....
Just think of all the big winners of the past several years would never have happened without frozen semen...John Henry, Amber, Cloud, G Man, Cherry Bomb, Mac and many more...

Jon Henry was from a Breeding

Posted by jerhovt on 03-01-2016 12:22 PM:

Im no expert and this is what I gathered from all the posts Ive read. Now wouldnt it be best to hunt with a studs pups while there young and still in training? The reason I think this is going back to the "Naturals" thread now if you were to hunt with pups that were just getting going you would see the natural ability that was put into the pups or am I wrong?Also hunt with older pups to if possible but I think it would be more useful the younger they are.

__________________
Hounds I own
PR LT Redcoat Wait Till Sundown(Dual Grand T-Top Dark Timber Moose X Longtrail Redcoat Reaper)

PR Long Trail Redcoat Lucky Walter (Dual GR T-Top Dark Timber Moose xSML Dark Timber Bobbie Ann) co owner Ron Wolters

PR Long Trail Redcoat Reaper(GRCHPR Hershs Huntin Red 90/4 Life Gun HTX X CH PR Stone&Redcoat DBL Moon Kate II) co owner Ron Wolters

Hounds Im hunting
PR Soggy Bottom Dark Timber Addy : owners Buck Ratliff/Mike Laster

NTCH GRCH Dark Timber Red Angus : owners Buck Ratliff and Myself

Posted by Chris Snyder on 03-01-2016 12:26 PM:

Picking a stud

"If you don't know the dog, you better know the man."

If you can find an honest person with a good hound who is not afraid to point out the flaws in his dog instead of making him out to be infallible, then you have probably found your dog.

If you throw in the extra added bonus' of having a family of hounds in his pedigree and you have some experience with those lines and know what they can produce or know how they are probably going to cross with your female, then even better.

Finally, if you go to a hunt and get smoked by a dog and see it first hand, and you continue to watch this dog progress then you may want to consider that too if the above are in place.

Posted by okreddog56 on 03-01-2016 04:08 PM:

MY FIRST AND FORMOST IS THE DOG MUST GO HUNTING HARD,NO COMEBACK KIND OF DOG,AND THE FEMALE I BREED TO HIM WILL DO THE SAME,I CAN MAKE A DOG OUT OF SOMETHING THAT WILL GO HUNTING BUT IT IS A WASTE OF TIME FOOLING WITH ONE THAT WANT.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-01-2016 05:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by lazyoutlaw
Jon Henry was from a Breeding

Maybe I was thinking of a later litter. Does it really matter if its from frozen semen or straight out of the live stud?
Does anyone really think the pups would be different ?
A lot of people are quick to say why go backwards and use frozen semen....while at the same time they are getting their dogs semen collected and frozen for use in the future. Last time I saw B 3 frozen semen for sale it was $1000.....was that his stud fee when he was alive?
To me...as long as a dog has frozen semen available...the dog can still reproduce just as good of pups as any living dog...I see no difference.

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:23 AM.

Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Show all 44 posts from this thread on one page