UKC Forums - After the hunts over

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Posted by ThatBlueDog on 02-10-2016 04:53 PM:

After the hunts over

Your dogs are trailing and hunt time runs out. When you finally get to the two dogs treed, the other two came back in after time ran out, you see they had a possum up in the tree. Are these two dogs scratched for off game? I believe they shouldn't be because the hunts over before they got treed. You can't plus it if you seen a coon so there don't believe you can get scratched either. Had a guy arguing about it saying the two dogs are scratched. Don't think he's right.

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Posted by jkidd1 on 02-10-2016 05:00 PM:

The only ones scratched are those that were treed during hunt time.

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Posted by ThatBlueDog on 02-10-2016 05:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
The only ones scratched are those that were treed during hunt time.

No dogs were treed during the hunt time they were still trailing. By the time we caught up to them they were treed. Hunt time was over when they started treeing.

Posted by jkidd1 on 02-10-2016 05:12 PM:

The rules say : (g) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, for running, treeing or molesting off game during hunting time including any time out periods prior to the expiration of hunt time.

They don't have to be treed to be scratched for off game, if they were running the possum during hunt time, they're just as guilty.

Posted by ThatBlueDog on 02-10-2016 05:26 PM:

It says prior to the hunt expiring though. How can you prove they were running a possum and just didn't end up falling treed on it. My dog wasn't the one that treed it I was just along on the cast. They took it back to the moh and I'm pretty sure he decided that they weren't scratched because the hunt was over before they got treed or something along those lines.

Posted by joey on 02-10-2016 05:29 PM:

No they are not scratched with the rule change. When the hunt is over they can no longer be scratched if they were not treed in during hunt time. Before the rule change it was under the authority of the judge, meaning they could be scratched at anytime until the card was turned in. So you are correct now, but he would have been correct before the rule change.

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Posted by DFred on 02-10-2016 06:52 PM:

I'm pretty sure Jeremy Kidd is right. He quoted the current rule. Thinking back on the world hunt, if memory serves me right, this is the rule that scratched Ead's BP dog. If I'm wrong about this I apologize.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-10-2016 07:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
The rules say : (g) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, for running, treeing or molesting off game during hunting time including any time out periods prior to the expiration of hunt time.

They don't have to be treed to be scratched for off game, if they were running the possum during hunt time, they're just as guilty.

Hard to prove they were running a possum during hunting time lol. Heck we have dogs running deer all the time and falling off on coons in the hunts but its almost impossible to prove. Who's to say they didn't switch to a possum once hunt time expired?

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-10-2016 07:58 PM:

Those dogs must not be worth a durn at running deer then because when mine get after one if they did tree off of it you would never know it because they are gone out of hearing.

Posted by jkidd1 on 02-10-2016 08:03 PM:

I took it as, on this cast, they admittedly knew what the dogs had done but thought they were fine because they were not treed during hunt time. In that case they're scratched. Also they very well could've switched from running a coon during hunt time, then heard the clock beep when hunt was over and decide to tree that possum, but you'll have to convince majority of cast of that.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-10-2016 08:11 PM:

Joey has the correct answer.

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Posted by jkidd1 on 02-10-2016 09:10 PM:

They should just take the word "running" off game out then, cause you can never prove it.

Posted by DFred on 02-10-2016 09:37 PM:

I've never seen a dog or dogs switch off of coon and tree possum. Sounds to me like they were running that grinner.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-10-2016 10:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DFred
I've never seen a dog or dogs switch off of coon and tree possum. Sounds to me like they were running that grinner.

Just curious, how do you know this 100% for sure?

Dogs will run everything else in the woods and switch off to a coon, but never switch off of a coon on a possum?

Posted by joey on 02-10-2016 10:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
They should just take the word "running" off game out then, cause you can never prove it.

You don't have to prove anything in a hunt, you just make the call and if they don't like it take a vote. Then its over. One of the biggest requirements that's is over looked in choosing a nite hunt judge is him knowing what a dog is doing. We all know what they are doing when we are pleasure hunting, but when we enter a hunt all of a sudden we think everything has to be seen to be scored. A judge does a lot of the scoring with his ears.

The problem with scratching them for running the possum is it had to be done while they were doing it. When the hunt is over everything on that card is deleted and considered scored. Unless they were treed before the time run out. So the dogs in this situations strike points are already scored and you cant go back to minus or scratch them under the new rule.

Posted by JiM on 02-10-2016 10:45 PM:

It don't get answered any better than that!

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Posted by jkidd1 on 02-10-2016 10:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
The problem with scratching them for running the possum is it had to be done while they were doing it. When the hunt is over everything on that card is deleted and considered scored. Unless they were treed before the time run out. So the dogs in this situations strike points are already scored and you cant go back to minus or scratch them under the new rule.

Very true, I was only lookin at it through hind sight, but your right. I stand corrected.

Posted by DFred on 02-11-2016 12:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
Just curious, how do you know this 100% for sure?

Dogs will run everything else in the woods and switch off to a coon, but never switch off of a coon on a possum?

100% maybe not. But 99% is enough for me to call a spade a spade. My dogs are taught that coons are good, off game is bad. When they run off game and switch to coon it's because they know they were wrong and have a chance to get right. Any dog with a brain wouldn't quit something right to go wrong, unless they are just hopeless. To say " Naw, they was running coon and switched to a possum" is like peeing on someone's leg and tell them it's raining. If they have any sense they won't believe you.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 02-11-2016 08:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
The only ones scratched are those that were treed during hunt time.

The only thing I would add to your response is the key word "declared" treed.

When time expires in a hunt; any dog that is declared struck but not declared treed is considered to have been trailing when hunt time ran out. And their strike points are deleted per 5 (e). Nothing else matters.

The only thing a dog might be subjected to after hunt time expires, when it comes to any further "scoring", is fighting. That's because dogs are scratched for fighting "under the authority of the judge". By rule the authority of the judge starts when they are handed the scorecard and it ceases when the card is returned to the official.

Posted by Brian Gray on 02-11-2016 10:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
The only thing I would add to your response is the key word "declared" treed.

When time expires in a hunt; any dog that is declared struck but not declared treed is considered to have been trailing when hunt time ran out. And their strike points are deleted per 5 (e). Nothing else matters.

The only thing a dog might be subjected to after hunt time expires, when it comes to any further "scoring", is fighting. That's because dogs are scratched for fighting "under the authority of the judge". By rule the authority of the judge starts when they are handed the scorecard and it ceases when the card is returned to the official.

So let me get this straight. The hunts over and your driving back to the club house you have the judge rideing with you and you have your dog and the judges dog in the dog box in the same hole and a dog fight breaks out they still can be scratched?

Posted by JiM on 02-11-2016 11:15 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brian Gray
So let me get this straight. The hunts over and your driving back to the club house you have the judge rideing with you and you have your dog and the judges dog in the dog box in the same hole and a dog fight breaks out they still can be scratched? [/QUOTE
Yes.

Posted by Brian Gray on 02-12-2016 12:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brian Gray
So let me get this straight. The hunts over and your driving back to the club house you have the judge rideing with you and you have your dog and the judges dog in the dog box in the same hole and a dog fight breaks out they still can be scratched? [/QUOTE
Yes.

WOW!

Posted by MARSHALL AYERS on 02-12-2016 03:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brian Gray
So let me get this straight. The hunts over and your driving back to the club house you have the judge rideing with you and you have your dog and the judges dog in the dog box in the same hole and a dog fight breaks out they still can be scratched? [/QUOTE
Yes.

I'll play the what if game. Is a dog scratched of it fights with a dog that is not in a cast? For instance I have 2 dogs in my box. One I'm hunting and the other is just along for the ride. After the first drop I load my hunting dog in the truck with the dog that's along for the ride and they fight is the dog I'm hunting scratched? He didn't fight with a dog in the cast!?

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Posted by joey on 02-12-2016 04:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MARSHALL AYERS
I'll play the what if game. Is a dog scratched of it fights with a dog that is not in a cast? For instance I have 2 dogs in my box. One I'm hunting and the other is just along for the ride. After the first drop I load my hunting dog in the truck with the dog that's along for the ride and they fight is the dog I'm hunting scratched? He didn't fight with a dog in the cast!?

No, only if the dog fights with another dog in the cast.

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