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-- Would You give up nose for accuracy???? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928442962)

Would You give up nose for accuracy????

I have seen many different posts where folks make accuracy their number one priority in a hound.

I wonder at what cost are we willing to sacrifice to get the desired trait. It seems to me that the easiest/best way to increase accuracy would be to cut the nose. Thus a dog that only runs RED HOT tracks should be more accurate than a dog that is willing to work a cold track.

My thinking on this is that if you breed a hound to only tree when it sees a coon climbing a tree, then you should in fact have a high percentage accurate tree dog. Thus it should be more accurate than a hound that trails a two-three hour old track and trees on scent rather than by sight.

Your dog may end up only being able to tree 2% or less of the total coons in one woods, but hey, it would have a coon almost every time you walked to it.

I have come to believe that too much of anything in life is NOT GOOD FOR YOU. LOL. Too much tree dog-Not Good. Too much track dog- Not Good. Too much hunt-Not Good, Too much Nose-Not Good, Too Much speed-Not Good, Too much Brains-Not Good. Heck even too much apple pie may cause diabetes.

So my question to all is this; Do you want a 99.9 percent accurate tree dog, that would have a coon in most every tree you walk to, or would you settle for something less, that might require you to walk to 10/20% or more, dens/slick trees, But has the ability to tree 2/3 or more coons per night than the 99% accurate hound?

At what percentage would you draw the line??

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Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
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I never name names when talking dogs but one of the most recent " greatest ever " studs I hunted 5 different dogs out of. Every one of them was a hot nosed ambush type dog. All of them missed a lot. I don't think cold nose= tree happy I would say more BRAINS and more nose = more accuracy.

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i think i would rather stick with a 50 / 50 split , i have seen some cold nose dogs that were real accurate and i have also seen some hot nosed dogs that put up a lot of slicks , if a dog does not have what it takes in his gourd to put a finish on what he started if he has a hot or cold nose want mean that much , if a dog want get out and hunt he will not find a track , if he has a low I-Q he want no what to do with it when he finds it , with a low I-Q he will not be accurate if he is cold nose or hot nose because he want be smart enough to be sure of his self ..

I like a dog with a cold nose but I like a drifting type track dog witch a lot of times is hard to find most people assosiate a cold nose with trailing to much I think shortening the hunt time in the hunts has changed our dogs dramatically.

I don't equate cold nose with inaccuracy at all. Cold nose can bring its own problems with some dogs such as working tracks they are never going to get rolling, but I've seen and owned dogs that could start and finish some rough stuff and rarely missed.

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Originally posted by Jeff Prince
I never name names when talking dogs but one of the most recent " greatest ever " studs I hunted 5 different dogs out of. Every one of them was a hot nosed ambush type dog. All of them missed a lot. I don't think cold nose= tree happy I would say more BRAINS and more nose = more accuracy.

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I think if you gave up nose, you would also give up accuracy. I believe the two go hand in hand.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Originally posted by Jeff Prince
I never name names when talking dogs but one of the most recent " greatest ever " studs I hunted 5 different dogs out of. Every one of them was a hot nosed ambush type dog. All of them missed a lot. I don't think cold nose= tree happy I would say more BRAINS and more nose = more accuracy.

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This discussion is interesting unless you have hunted with one that has a good nose and is accurate.

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Originally posted by JiM
I think if you gave up nose, you would also give up accuracy. I believe the two go hand in hand.

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Originally posted by JiM
I think if you gave up nose, you would also give up accuracy. I believe the two go hand in hand.

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C.JONES

The only thing you have to give up for accuracy is slick treeing. Stop breeding slick treeing dogs(regardless of how many trucks they've won) and you'll get accuracy.

So we all agree,BRAINS is the answer? How do you pick a smart pup out of a litter,so you don't waste so much time?

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Originally posted by shadinc
The only thing you have to give up for accuracy is slick treeing. Stop breeding slick treeing dogs(regardless of how many trucks they've won) and you'll get accuracy.

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Originally posted by N Williams
You go try and win a truck with a slick treeing dog and tell us how that works out. I've had 2 truck tickets been there twice with my female. She's been scored on 6 trees one den and 5 plused up. Not even got past the first round. Them wipeout dogs win it about every year. A coon will hear one those things coming 3 miles away. Go back and watch the last 2 senior showdown play by plays. I remember the last 2. Lots of coon treeing went on. And no that cold nose dog that can't come up with the coon can't run a track. Nuff said. He ain't cold cold nosed. He can't run a track.

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most accrate dog ive owned and still do is a cold nose track dog and wont stand on his head doing it.everybody likes diff things but thats been the best for me.

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Brian

I think that the only thing that you have to give up for accuracy is speed. A dog that gets treed fast is not as accurate as one that takes his/her time and makes sure that they have a coon when they tree. You have to balance speed with accuracy. So where do you draw the line? How much speed will you give up for accuracy? Would you rather have a super fast dog that wasn't very accurate or a dog that was 95% accurate but was a little slow to get treed. Do you want a dog that you can tree on his first locate but isn't very accurate or do you want one that locates and moves on and you have to wait until he/she "settles in" before you can tree them. I think that every handler/owner is a little different and has their own preference.
Of course we all "want" one that is 95% accurate and we can tree them on their first locate. But what are you willing to "accept".

Mr. Lambert I agree with most everything you are saying. I enjoy reading the different perspectives as to what causes a dog to miss. My theory of the hot nose dog being more accurate goes something like this. If a dog only runs tracks that are 5 minutes old or less, this dog should have more scent to work with and therefore should be able to push a track harder, thus forcing a coon to climb. Sometimes a dog can get so close to a coon that it will actually see the coon climb the tree.

Now I have hunted with some squirrel dogs that run and tree by sight. Those type usually are very accurate. I was thinking if you bred a coonhound to run through the woods till it seen a coon and forced it to climb, then you would have a very accurate coon dog as well. May not fit your style but it would be very accurate. I sure wouldn't want one, but if your #1 goal is to have a 99.9% accurate tree dog then maybe that would be your easiest way to achieve those numbers.

Just some thoughts to ponder while we wait for this winter weather to pass by.

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

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Originally posted by shadinc
The only thing you have to give up for accuracy is slick treeing. Stop breeding slick treeing dogs(regardless of how many trucks they've won) and you'll get accuracy.

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Originally posted by mr taylor
its good that everyone never puts a emphasis on one subject and threads it through the hurdles ..
if you took the nose out of a hound and made him a straight sight dog you will still get slick treeing hounds no matter how you breed them , as a wise man once said nothing is 100 % ..

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Most dogs that slick tree a lot have no nose its either that or they have no brains to run a track

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I have owned 3 and hunted the fourth dog that were cold nosed, above 85% accurate and 3 could be called on the first locate, while the other one needed the second bark. The second bark came immeadiately after the first.

Cur?

Walker dogs. Same line I hunt now.

My wife knows very little about hounds but she has made a statement over and over that I have started listening too.

After spending unreal amounts foolishly over the last 20 years I agree with her. They are not robots.

I want an honest 100 strike dog,run a track one way,locate one time,roll over to a big steady chop,and have a coon. You would think that would be easy to find but as we know they are not.

There are very few gifted hounds that have that ability to CONSISTENTLY TREE COONS. Also,there are even FEWER HOUNDSMEN THAT KNOW HOW TO GET A DOG TO CONSISTENTLY TREE COONS.

Have you ever noticed at your local clubs that there are certain people who always pack a pretty good dog,and then those who rarely have a good one

Have you opened the books each month to see the same faces winning big hunts and very rarely a new face that wins consistently.

It may be brains,nose for the dog,BUT JUST AS MUCH EMPHASIS TO HAVING AN ACCURATE DOG IS THE MAN BEHIND IT.

We can say this trait or that trait could be changed but very few of us change our training techniques or even know how to change them,MYSELF INCLUDED.

The dogs have changed some but our training and hunting styles for the most part have not. I have a couple of neighbors that always seem to packing some top notch dogs. I have started going with them more and more and I have seen my dog power steadily increasing. I am still learning.

I thought I knew a lot about hunting. I have been privileged to own some outstanding hounds. Some I bought,and the ones I trained I have decided were just naturals and I just was along for the ride.

I say all this to say there is more to it than the dog. I did not want to have someone show me anything because I was a dog man,but I can say I have been steadily watching and doing what some other top dog men are doing and I have been treeing more coons this season than I ever have in my life.

Just my take on things.

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Originally posted by shadinc
MR Taylor, you're gonna give yourself a stroke if you don't lighten up. Who ever heard of a hound without a nose?

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