UKC Forums - Good Prospect

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-- Good Prospect (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928440666)

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-14-2016 05:08 PM:

Good Prospect

Just what do y'all think that a "prospect" is? Just what do y'all think that a "good prospect" is?

Posted by brian layton on 01-14-2016 05:52 PM:

Somethin thhat has what it takes to make a winner

Posted by Sawblade on 01-14-2016 05:59 PM:

Good prospect

A good prospect is ready for the hunts now and can win . a prospect can and should win but might not be ready right now.
the rest are either pups or culls

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Adam Wingler on 01-14-2016 07:05 PM:

Neither of mine...just felt like joining the conversation. 👍

Posted by B Weatherford on 01-14-2016 09:49 PM:

For me its

Prospect- A dog that meets my expectations. Something that when I take it to the woods it makes what to take it again. Shows the abilities need to suit me. Good mouth, opens quick enough, shows its looking to get treed, not shy or weird acting around other dogs, and wants to go hunting.

Good Prospect- is one that I am singling out because he or she has shown all above and I haven't got rid of it.

Good Luck Everybody this year.

__________________
Honest competion hunters make the hunts fun! Cheaters never win!!!!!

Posted by jkhutch on 01-15-2016 12:11 AM:

Re: For me its

quote:
Originally posted by B Weatherford
Prospect- A dog that meets my expectations. Something that when I take it to the woods it makes what to take it again. Shows the abilities need to suit me. Good mouth, opens quick enough, shows its looking to get treed, not shy or weird acting around other dogs, and wants to go hunting.

Good Prospect- is one that I am singling out because he or she has shown all above and I haven't got rid of it.

Good Luck Everybody this year.

Very well said!!!

__________________
Jared Hutcheson
Indiana
Redbones:
GRNTCH PKC Ch PR Hutch's Big Walnut Boone HTX DNA-V(Haze X Reba)-
2 Time UKC World Top 100
UKC World Top 20 (13th)
UKC Purina Redbone of the year
PKC Redbone CH
UKC Top Producers List
UKC Winter Classic High Scoring Redbone
Co owned with Richard Lambert

GrNtCh PKC Ch One Chance Fancy- (Boone X Toadie)
2018 Autumn Oaks Grand 16
2018 Grand National Redbone
2018 Redbones Days RQE 1st Place

Walkers-
NTCh PKC CH Jeb’s Finley River Peanut- Co owned with Bishop Stallcop
Claremont PKC Legacy hunt Final 4
PKC Breeders Showcase Final 4

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 01-15-2016 01:43 AM:

To me a good prospect has certain things I consider "required" to be a great competition dog some day. They dont have to have it all put together...but they have to have shown me they possess many of these things. usually...if you see a dog at my place that is over the age of 12 months...its a prospect.
But sometimes they become a prospect at 7 or 8 months....just depends on when "it" starts to show and how much "it" makes me grin when I see it

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by oklared on 01-15-2016 03:28 PM:

ONE THAT HAS ALL THE TOOLS

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-15-2016 03:45 PM:

I wonder why it is that for every 100 "prospects" only 10 actually turn out to be winners? Is it because the dogs lose their "talents", they didn't really have them to begin with or the trainers don't know how to bring out those "talents"?

Posted by jkhutch on 01-15-2016 03:48 PM:

Boy did I have fun with 2 of my "Prospects" Last night!!!

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-15-2016 03:51 PM:

What are the minimum talents that a prospect must have? I mean the "required" talents. And what are the extra talents that a "good prospect" has? And, I am talking about a started pup here, not a finished or ready to go to a hunt hound.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-15-2016 03:54 PM:

And Jared, I don't think that the ability/talent to drive a deer into the next county in only 5 minutes all by themselves counts as a "required talent".

Unless you are a bear hunter......

Posted by jkhutch on 01-15-2016 04:04 PM:

I thought that everyone wanted "drive" in there hounds. I think its an overlooked talent.

Posted by Adam Wingler on 01-15-2016 04:14 PM:

There are some near dozens of obstacles why many prospects don't make it that have not a thing to do with the hound itself. And at the top of the list is DESIRE...our personal desire.

Desire will trump laziness, shortage of money, lack of good hunting, lack of sleep, lack of time, a beat up truck, back biting "fellow" hunters, and so on. Desire will push you to learn more. Desire can even defeat the more than a dozen additional obstacles that can happen with ANY young hound. And on top of that you pray both man and hound stay healthy.

A well bred pup and desire is the best combination possible, and the only combination that should expect much.

Posted by okreddog56 on 01-15-2016 04:19 PM:

IS A DOG THAT HAS ALL THE TOOLS TO BE A TOP HOUND BUT HE JUST HAS NOT PUT IT ALL TOGETHER,BUT WHAT WOULD I KNOW I HAVE LET A FEW GET AWAY THAT I STARTED AND I THOUGHT THEY WAS SHORT ON SOME OF THEM TOOLS AND THEY WENT ON TO GRNITE AND WIN SOME MONEY.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-15-2016 04:27 PM:

Adam, I hadn't thought about the health or lack of in a prospect. That is a new one. And that is a new way to look at "desire or drive", the "desire/drive" of the handler/trainer/owner... good post.

Posted by oklared on 01-15-2016 04:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by okreddog56
IS A DOG THAT HAS ALL THE TOOLS TO BE A TOP HOUND BUT HE JUST HAS NOT PUT IT ALL TOGETHER,BUT WHAT WOULD I KNOW I HAVE LET A FEW GET AWAY THAT I STARTED AND I THOUGHT THEY WAS SHORT ON SOME OF THEM TOOLS AND THEY WENT ON TO GRNITE AND WIN SOME MONEY.

LEONARD, THATS CAUSE WE BE FROM OKLAHOMA, hee hee

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-15-2016 05:03 PM:

I guess that sometimes "prospect" is like beauty.

Posted by Adam Wingler on 01-15-2016 05:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Adam, I hadn't thought about the health or lack of in a prospect. That is a new one. And that is a new way to look at "desire or drive", the "desire/drive" of the handler/trainer/owner... good post.

Thanks.

Yea I'be had a couple go sick but not for extended periods of time. And I guess car bumpers are bad for health too...

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-15-2016 05:09 PM:

Erlichia, Lymes or Blastomycosis can all hurt a nice prospect also.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 01-15-2016 06:31 PM:

A good prospect has shown it has the basic tools...and some actual talent to use a few of them. They have not put it all together yet...or proven themselves yet...but the trainer has seen something special in its talent.
Drive and desire to hunt is a basic tool
Sufficient mouth (volume) is a basic tool
Being tree minded....but not too tree minded is a basic tool
Having sufficient nose to trail and locate the tree is a basic tool
Some things i would list as talent are
Ability to open quick and move a track in the right direction
Ability to finish the track and accurately locate the right tree with the coon in it
The speed in doing the above two things...faster than most other dogs
The natural ability to be independent and take pressure against other dogs
And one of the highest priority talents on my list...competetiveness!
Some dogs just hate to be out struck, out treed or out hunted.
Make no mistake...when you see a young dog that has the basic tools...and shows the above critical talent...in the right hands, that dog can be molded into a big winner!
If i dont see basic tools by the time a dog is a year old...its probably not going to make the cut.
If i see the basic tools and start to work with the dog....if I dont see some real talent needed to win in competition by the time its 14-16 months old...then it isnt going to make my cut either.
The first eliminates it from being a coon dog...but the second just eliminates it from being my kind of competition dog.
I think way to many people in this breed settle for just having a coon dog...but i am way beyond that. I am breeding and training for competition dogs who can compete...and win at the highest level. A coon dog with basic tools might win some in competition...but the dogs you find at the top levels have more than just the basic tools to make them a coon dog...they have talent...and just like in humans...its really hard to best a talented individual.
As redbone breeders...maybe we should take a harder look at true talents of some of our best competition dogs and identify what makes them win more than others...what gives them the edge...and then go about breeding so as to isolate that ability and talent and concentrate it in future litters.
Its not rocket science...but it does take some study and homework.
The key is to know what your looking for, and then once you find it...how to bring it out in high percentage litters. Good luck to everyone in the coming year....by all indications....its shaping up to be a great one for the breed!

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-16-2016 12:39 AM:

You can breed for nose, mouth, track, tree etc. But can you breed for "competitiveness"? Is it a real trait?

When you have a hound that is totally a loner, I mean one who leaves the other dogs when you cut him loose trying to get by himself; is he being "competitive"?

Can a dog be too competitive?

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 01-16-2016 02:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You can breed for nose, mouth, track, tree etc. But can you breed for "competitiveness"? Is it a real trait?

When you have a hound that is totally a loner, I mean one who leaves the other dogs when you cut him loose trying to get by himself; is he being "competitive"?

Can a dog be too competitive?

It sure seems like a lot of top walkers and english have that trait....too bad they have lost some of their accuracy. Now the race is on for us to see if we can breed in more competetiveness before they breed more accuracy back into theirs....

Posted by B Weatherford on 01-16-2016 05:28 AM:

I like this topic.

I agree with the competitive dog. I have only had the pleasure to hunt one dog that was Red that had it. I said I have. I know there are more. He was different when you took him to a hunt. He would get really wound up. He knew what we were doing. What made him be a competitor was he had the tools. Mouth , strike,Tree, could Handel pressure plus the competiveness. It takes both. Do I think a Man made loner is the same thing. No,but there are so many different opinions about what competiveness is. Somebody may say that Loner dog you just got beat bye has it. However, the next hunt he get off to hiself and trees one while the packers in the hunt tree three and he gets beat.They have to be able to do it all. Be alone when there alone. Be pushing to be in front when packed up and pull that tree with a coon in front of the pack the majority of the time. That means drop after drop consistently. Every cast is different. Got to be able to do both. Just my opinion this will be the hardest thing to breed in, or change. I agree with Shane we need more of it. Is it a trait. I am going to say no, but what the heck do I know.

__________________
Honest competion hunters make the hunts fun! Cheaters never win!!!!!

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-16-2016 02:32 PM:

Is a "competitive" dog one that looks like crap all week by himself but looks like a million dollars on the weekend when you put him in a hunt? Is a dog without the competitive spirit one that looks like a million dollars all week but looks like crap on the weekend when you put him in with a cast? I have had dogs that just meandered out and loafed around when you turned them loose by themselves. But when you turned them loose with another dog/dogs they went flying out and hunted hard. Is that a "competitive spirit"? When someone says that they have a dog that hunts close by themselves but deep with another dog, is that a dog with a "competitive spirit"?

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