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alpha and tone recall

I have been looking for information about having your dog trained to come back on tone. Does anyone have any good ideas or video links? thanks for all of your help. ds

Mine is tone broke. First thing I did was taught the "come" command. This was done using treats and started at a young age. I didn't purchase the Alpha until my pup was about 6 months old and the "come" command was already established. The tone was then integrated into the "come" command in back yard training while still using the treats about half the time and praise every time. I would say "come" then use the tone. Eventually the voice command was left out and only tone was used. Only after the command was learned, either voice or tone or both, did I move on to training in the woods. There are many more distractions in the woods and the command should be learned at home before moving on. Hope this helps.

Here's my advice...don't waste a great feature that can be better applied for other things when you really need/want your dog to come to you by voice command. Most people use the tone for recall because it is easy to train a dog to do this. In fact, it is pretty much automatic. Now, it wont be long before someone gets on here and tells us all how much trouble it was and how he's the greatest trainer in the world, but you can best believe if you push that button and back it up with electricity the dog figures it out quick. It is not hard to teach "here" no matter how you do it.
First and foremost, what happens when the device don't work??? Your dog gets hit by a car??? Because you cant call him in when you really need to??? Do what you want, but for me...I want my dogs to come to me when I call them.
Next, why waste the tone on something so simple when it could be better used elsewhere in the dogs training??? Wouldn't it be better used to "fire a shot across his bow" when he is getting ready to start running something off??? Some dogs are very soft to being shocked. One buzz of the juice, even dialed way down and the softer dogs shut down. If you have one of these types of dogs you will wish you didn't waste the tone feature on calling him back. Using the tone to call a dog back is easy, it's path of least resistance training and if it makes you feel like you did something then good, but better used elsewhere. Good luck.

Great answers. this will get me started. I guess I will use the tone and then stim at close to the same time to get it started. Does this seem right? thanks, d

Re: alpha and tone recall

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Originally posted by davidmustang
I have been looking for information about having your dog trained to come back on tone. Does anyone have any good ideas or video links? thanks for all of your help. ds

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quote:

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Originally posted by davidmustang
I guess I will use the tone and then stim at close to the same time to get it started. Does this seem right? thanks, d

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Go to YOUTUBE and there are a host of training videos that would give you some good ideas.

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Originally posted by msinc
Here's my advice...don't waste a great feature that can be better applied for other things when you really need/want your dog to come to you by voice command. Most people use the tone for recall because it is easy to train a dog to do this. In fact, it is pretty much automatic. Now, it wont be long before someone gets on here and tells us all how much trouble it was and how he's the greatest trainer in the world, but you can best believe if you push that button and back it up with electricity the dog figures it out quick. It is not hard to teach "here" no matter how you do it.
First and foremost, what happens when the device don't work??? Your dog gets hit by a car??? Because you cant call him in when you really need to??? Do what you want, but for me...I want my dogs to come to me when I call them.
Next, why waste the tone on something so simple when it could be better used elsewhere in the dogs training??? Wouldn't it be better used to "fire a shot across his bow" when he is getting ready to start running something off??? Some dogs are very soft to being shocked. One buzz of the juice, even dialed way down and the softer dogs shut down. If you have one of these types of dogs you will wish you didn't waste the tone feature on calling him back. Using the tone to call a dog back is easy, it's path of least resistance training and if it makes you feel like you did something then good, but better used elsewhere.
Good luck.

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__________________
Bryan Link
814-691-5732

Yes, I am saying that if you use tone for recall that is what you get...a dog that is at your side every time you push the tone button. If that is what you want...then go ahead, but to me there are much better uses for the tone feature.
It seems like today's e-collars are much more powerful than before. I understand you can dial it down, but the object is to use as little power as gets the job done. This is so the dog don't shut down on you. Too much and the dogs gets senseless and no longer understands what is happening. You want the dog to realize that {trash breaking for example} the deer he is after is hurting him because he keeps on trying. What you don't want is the dog to all of a sudden get lit up so bad that he no longer realizes or even cares about the deer doing it, he just wants it to stop and is no longer relating it to the deer. He's thinking only about relief.
Now, where I find I am really making headway is when I have a dog that has been "educated" on what deer can do and I catch him {hunt during the day} trying a deer again...the tone is something to break his concentration and think about what might happen next. I have let this dog decide that he can avoid a shock. It wont be long until he realizes that he can avoid a shock by avoiding deer altogether. That tone helps him not lose his mind and think about what's happening instead of going into a state of fear and not really accomplishing much.
Now, understand that it takes some dogs more "education" than others to get to this point. Some dogs absolutely cannot take being shocked, not even a little bit. This type dog is already there. Some dogs are either so hard headed or have gotten away with running off game so long it is going to take a few good jolts. Either way, you must get the dog to the point that he has a reason to make the decision not to chase.
Again, do it however you want...but I think we can all agree that breaking a dog off junk is way harder {probably the toughest thing to accomplish} than getting them to come to you.

Edit: It's always funny to me when a guy gets on here and actually brags about the fact that he "trained" his dog to "come to him with the tone" like he's really done something. Did you also train your dog to eat??? What I see with tone broke dogs is that they were shocked for every little thing and the dog sooner or later realized that you don't shock him when he's at your side...so he comes in for relief.

MSINC do you use the vibration feature and if so what do you use that for.

Yes sir, that is actually one of the best things to come along since the coon squaller!!! Here is a good example of how I use it: I have young dog I am trying to salvage now. The owner took this dog and shocked him for every little thing the guy didn't like. If the dog peed on too many bushes, if it found a dead animal to roll in, if it looked like it was trying to smell a deer...all this got the little dog lit up.
This dog is like a big puppy, he is soft to discipline. At this point if I just take the dog for a walk with no collar he runs around and plays like a happy little puppy. Put a collar on him and he will not leave my side. If I stop walking, he lays down on the ground immediately.
He is coon crazy and a good hard tree dog. He hasn't yet learned to run a track but he is trying to hunt and look for coons. So far he hasn't shown any interest in any kind of junk. He is good bred and worth saving.
This dog will never need any electricity again, I feel like a couple more shocks for any reason and he is ruined. That vibrate feature will be the most he ever needs and so far {fast forward to today} it is probably the reason the dog was able to be salvaged.
The vibration feature can also be used as something in between the tone and shock to help get their attention in a stronger way {they feel it but it don't hurt} than just the tone and yet still avoid a shock. The whole thing I am trying to do is get the most out of a situation...if a dog in training goes for a deer and I simply dial up and shock/stop him, I did it once and it's over. Same scene, I tone first, he delays, goes for it again, I tone and follow with an immediate very light shock, he stops, so I was able to get in the middle of two tries...double the lesson.
Now add in the vibrate which works even better and I could get three or four "interventions"...that vibrate feature has allowed me to get what could have taken a week to accomplish in a matter of minutes!!!! The T-15 collar in the right hands, with a little luck can really put a young dog ahead of the game. In the case of the little dog I am working with now...I seriously doubt he could be saved without it.

Edit: the vibrate is not just good for trash breaking...it is super good for teaching "here" because the dog knows you have more control but he has no reason to bolt {electricity} I would say that given the right trainer and the vibrate feature, you can almost do away with the shock for just about everything.

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With the ALPHA and T5 having a light on the collar along with the Garmin Training Systems. Do you think a dog could be trained to come when the light was turned on? Say either on the fast flash mode or solid state.

Certainly. Anything that collar can do besides shock can be backed up with stimulation to recall. You wouldn't use the T-5 to actually teach it, but once learned the dog would respond.
It just wouldn't work very good during the day...

Real question here. Why not train the dog to come to a whistle? Like a dog whistle that humans can't hear. We use whistles for our bird dogs. One toot for change directions and 2 toots for come. Just a thought. I know they make load whistles or long range but I'd rather have one that people can't hear.

from MY experience leave the tone button alone.if anyone you are hunting with tones their dog and your dog is near,it will respond also.the flashing lights on the collar works best for me.if trouble is near:coyotes or roads,turn the blinking lights on the collar "fast blink" and your dog returns to you the same as the tone.plus you can see where your dog is some of the time.the flashing light with slight stimulation will get the same results as the tone plus no interference with other dogs.try it,,,you just might like it.

For recall i use tone,whistle, and voice. Depending on the lay of the ground and which way the wind is blowing I can tone a dog farther that what it can hear a voice or whistle. Voice and whistle is mainly for letting the dog know where to come once it gets close enough.

i use the collar lights so my dogs can see where they are going without tripping. Just kidding. I turn the lights on before they come out of the box and they stay on till i'm done hunting. Reason- my dogs will cross some dirt roads that hardly ever has a car on it, hope it keeps the coyotes away, and so some predator hunters don't shoot my dog.

This is just what i like, everyone has their own style.

I use tone for recall and the lowest stimulation for my "shot across the bow".

Msinc, how do you get your dog to come back to you when it is out of the range of your voice?

everyone has been helpful. I have a 1 year old redbone as a pet. My wife bought me the alpha &t15 for this xmas. We want to be able to take the dog walking in the woods without him running away (which happened one time). I have been working with the come command for 3 months with food and collar. I will not be able to use the Alpha until xmas, so tell me if I am missing anything.
1. put collar on and find lowest stim level.
2. put leach on and call dog, hit tone and then immediately stim. Once dog comes, release stim.
3. Once dog gets this, them hit tone and see what happens.

how long should it take if I work with the dog everyday for him to come on tone? Again, thanks everyone for all the help.

msinc , good advice, I am embarrassed to say that we will not be hunting the dog.

quote:

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Originally posted by davidmustang
everyone has been helpful. I have a 1 year old redbone as a pet. My wife bought me the alpha &t15 for this xmas. We want to be able to take the dog walking in the woods without him running away (which happened one time). I have been working with the come command for 3 months with food and collar. I will not be able to use the Alpha until xmas, so tell me if I am missing anything.
1. put collar on and find lowest stim level.
2. put leach on and call dog, hit tone and then immediately stim. Once dog comes, release stim.
3. Once dog gets this, them hit tone and see what happens.

how long should it take if I work with the dog everyday for him to come on tone? Again, thanks everyone for all the help.

msinc , good advice, I am embarrassed to say that we will not be hunting the dog.

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The female I am hunting is 8 yrs old I have owned her all her life she absolutly was uncontrollable till I got my alpha why because she was smart enough to know I couldn't tell if she was listening to me or not !! Now I can see if she is listening when she isn't with the tone button I give her a reminder I am there it's made her a pleasure to hunt jmo.

I might be tone deaf but my dogs aren't

I tone for everything after I use my voice.
Example my buddies dog is bad for barking in the box I yell quite if no response I will tone them it seems to change their focus and they hear me better shocking hasn't broken him from it but every time I use the tone once he gets quite.
same with the come command after I holler and see no response I tone and they tend to change their focus to me. If tone didn't get their attention then they get a little electro therapy.
They did use electro therapy on insane people back in the day. Does that mean our dogs are crazy????

__________________
Wch. Nite Ch. Gr.Ch NIGHTYNITE GREAT LAKES PENNY.

Great lakes Reggie. My jet & 90 pup

Derek Fackler
(810)338-4817

thanks shadinc. I googled Love that tone, and that was what I was looking for. I have my blueprint not to work. thanks everyone. d

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Originally posted by DFred
Msinc, how do you get your dog to come back to you when it is out of the range of your voice?

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quote:

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Originally posted by davidmustang
everyone has been helpful. I have a 1 year old redbone as a pet. My wife bought me the alpha &t15 for this xmas. We want to be able to take the dog walking in the woods without him running away (which happened one time). I have been working with the come command for 3 months with food and collar. I will not be able to use the Alpha until xmas, so tell me if I am missing anything.
1. put collar on and find lowest stim level.
2. put leach on and call dog, hit tone and then immediately stim. Once dog comes, release stim.
3. Once dog gets this, them hit tone and see what happens.

how long should it take if I work with the dog everyday for him to come on tone? Again, thanks everyone for all the help.

msinc , good advice, I am embarrassed to say that we will not be hunting the dog.

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