UKC Forums - Rule ?

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Posted by artkiger on 10-19-2015 07:58 PM:

Rule ?

Is there an interference rule? What would constitute as interference ? As interfering with an other dogs performance . Can only find in rules about smelly females, or attempt to fight or showing aggression . Thanks

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Posted by JiM on 10-19-2015 08:36 PM:

There is no interference rule that I am aware of. It might help yo know specifically what you are talking about.

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Posted by artkiger on 10-19-2015 09:01 PM:

Tree Jacking,, moving around the tree and jumping on top of other dogs heads. Big enough problem that dogs leave the tree or it provokes aggression or fights. This dog does not stay in one place and Jack the tree it moves around almost chasing other dogs. I don't understand how this is not a form of hindering or interfereing with another dogs performance. If s dog face barks at another dog it's showing aggression "according to the rules" wouldn't jumping on another dogs head be a sign of aggression also. Thanks

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Posted by JiM on 10-19-2015 09:55 PM:

You have just given a textbook definition of "attempting to fight" as defined in rule 6(b).

Posted by artkiger on 10-19-2015 11:14 PM:

That is what I thought, it got taken back to MOH and got told that if the other dog wanted to tree it could move back out of the way. Thanks for the reply and I'll look up the rule.

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Posted by J I Allen on 10-19-2015 11:31 PM:

I don't see anywhere in rule 6b where it states a dog circling and jumping is attempting to fight. Simply because he's jumping and landing on other dogs is not fighting. Unless the dog is growling or snapping at the other dogs I don't think you could make a case for being aggressive.

Posted by joey on 10-19-2015 11:42 PM:

Without the dog face barking or growling your not going to make a case for tree aggression. You said it provokes aggression, that would be considered by some to be the other dogs problem not the tree jackers. I personally would blame it on the dog running the tree but I know thats not going to fly with the rules.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 10-20-2015 12:01 AM:

(1)..Dog(s) face barking @ one another or another dog r showing aggression ....(towards each other or another dog) & (2)..interfereing with each other or another dog.JMO, both criteria's have been meet to scratch'em both or the individual dog.
Could never understand why said dog(s) need to escalate to a dog fight in order to b scratched.
FOR AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR.
unfortunately it's not interpertated like that in competition.
JMO.

I wonder if any dog(s) have ever been scratched for AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR ?
If so does it carry the same penalty as being scratched for FIGHTING?

Posted by buck brush on 10-20-2015 12:22 AM:

if a dog is jacking the tree and going around the tree and falling on other dogs to me that is interfering with other dogs. it is one thing for a dog to stand in one spot and jump up and down, but to do it going around and around a tree and falling on other dogs and probably bumping into them WHY would some one put up with that.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-20-2015 12:29 AM:

They are a pain, BUT jacking is not agressive behavior, it may interfear but to scratch you need both... interfearance AND aggression.

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Posted by msinc on 10-20-2015 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by artkiger
Tree Jacking,, moving around the tree and jumping on top of other dogs heads. Big enough problem that dogs leave the tree or it provokes aggression or fights. This dog does not stay in one place and Jack the tree it moves around almost chasing other dogs. I don't understand how this is not a form of hindering or interfereing with another dogs performance. If s dog face barks at another dog it's showing aggression "according to the rules" wouldn't jumping on another dogs head be a sign of aggression also. Thanks

The word "interference" does not appear on the scorecard. As far as the rules are concerned, tree jacking, by and of itself is not aggression towards another dog. Moving around the tree, also called "crowding" is not aggression either as long as the dog doing it is looking up treeing. Getting excited and jumping up and falling on another dog is also not aggression towards another dog.
Unfortunately, if jacking, crowding and falling on a dog causes that dog to stop treeing and leave then he gets minus on tree for leaving. The tree jacker didn't run him away, he could and should have simply backed up and continued out of the way of the jacking idiot.
The difference between face barking and falling on another dog is intent...the face barker is showing definite aggression and it is squarely aimed at another dog. He is not barking treed or excited to have a coon up the tree, he is telling another dog "this is mine, get back." Jumping up while excited and happy to have a coon treed and falling on another dog is not intentionally done out of aggression to cause the other dog to leave.
There is a fine line between crowding and aggressive behavior. If I am judging and see a dog crowding or hogging around the tree all he has to do is turn his head towards another dog and bark while crowding and there is aggression and he gets scratched for attempting to fight.
The bad part is that a dog like you describe can get away with it for a long time...right up until he does it to the wrong {or right, depending on how you look at it} dog, a fight happens and he gets scratched.
Tree jacking as far as I know is extremely hard to impossible to stop, so he will strike out eventually given real judges.

Posted by T Felderman on 10-20-2015 02:00 AM:

I'd rather draw out with a tree jacker than a face barker any day.

Posted by GA DAWG on 10-20-2015 02:19 AM:

Mine would down that dog and rip its throat out and Id pet him up for it. I hate a tree jacked!

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 10-20-2015 06:54 AM:

Tree jacking was discussed by Allen a long time ago.
IT IS NOT CONSIDERED A SIGN OF AGGRESSION.
A dog running a tree should not be scratched for aggressive behavior.It is a tree style.
It is what happens as a result of jacking that you need to address.

As Alan defined it.
If dog A runs the tree and falls on dog B.
Dog B retaliates and begins to fight dog A.Dog A refuses to fight .Only dog B gets scratched.
If dog A retaliates and the fight is on,both dogs get scratched.
If both dogs go back to treeing satisfactorily Do not scratch either dog.As he put it you can't fault dog B for nipping dog A when it gets fell upon.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 10-20-2015 07:03 AM:

Another thing.Read rule 18 on your nite hunt score card.
You must have both aggressive behavior AND interference before scratching a dog for attempting to fight.
Just because a dog is slinging its head around at a tree does not mean you can scratch it.It has to be interfering with other dogs ability to stay treed with it.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 10-20-2015 12:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Mine would down that dog and rip its throat out and Id pet him up for it. I hate a tree jacked!

Mike what kind of answer is that? Almost sounds as if you would promote a dog fight. While a fight may not be preventable, it sure is stoppable, and we as good hunters down here in Georgia should never condone a dog fight of any kind. I personally do not like a jacker either, but I would not allow my dog to be fighting because of one.

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Posted by artkiger on 10-20-2015 05:50 PM:

So your saying the dog has to show aggression "and" interfere ? Rule 18 1&2. Or just one or the other?

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Posted by artkiger on 10-20-2015 05:53 PM:

If it's both I guess it's like posted above wait until the dog jumps on one and looks at it while barking. Thing is it's not fun for anyone, the owner of the tree jacker and us guys that get drawn out with it.

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Posted by msinc on 10-20-2015 07:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by artkiger
So your saying the dog has to show aggression "and" interfere ? Rule 18 1&2. Or just one or the other?

The dog in question must do both, show aggression and impede or interfere with another dogs ability to perform. So, if one dog is face barking and the other closest to him just moves back and keeps on treeing then the first dog doing the face barking does not get scratched. He should at the very least be watched carefully by the judge, because the next tree or the next dog closest to him gets face barked and leaves the tree then he is scratched...provided you have a real judge and he sees it and acts on it.

Posted by GA DAWG on 10-20-2015 10:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
Mike what kind of answer is that? Almost sounds as if you would promote a dog fight. While a fight may not be preventable, it sure is stoppable, and we as good hunters down here in Georgia should never condone a dog fight of any kind. I personally do not like a jacker either, but I would not allow my dog to be fighting because of one.

Theres a couple around here known fighters and I know good and well the owners are not that stupid as to not know. I was just joshing about mine ripping ones throat out. Hed prolly just get a ear or something

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Posted by artkiger on 10-21-2015 12:58 AM:

Thanks for all the info guys.

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Posted by msinc on 10-21-2015 01:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Theres a couple around here known fighters and I know good and well the owners are not that stupid as to not know. I was just joshing about mine ripping ones throat out. Hed prolly just get a ear or something

I figured surely you were joking with that post. My question is this; if it is "known" in your area that these particular dogs cause trouble, do the local clubs assign a non hunting judge that will act on these dogs???? If not, why not??? I suggest at the next hunt you advise the club who these dogs are and ask that they put a non hunting judge in the woods with them...if the club refuses I wouldn't hunt or go back there.
Everyone wants to get rid of the mean dogs, everyone always complains about their existence, yet nobody is willing to do what it takes to get them gone.
Years ago we had a well known female that was an outright tree fighter, male or female, it didn't matter, she would jump on anything. One club told the owner they were going to assign a judge and he threatened a law suit...scared them so bad they just let him hunt. So, the other guys got together and agreed that we would all scratch our dogs if he had his way. Sure enough, no action was taken and he was the only one going to the woods. He scratched the dog and left and we aint seen that guy since.

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